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0:03 Everyone zoom look good? 0:05 Oh, you know what? 0:05 My camera is off. 0:06 Sorry. Good morning everyone. 0:11 Can you see me all right? 0:13 Good to see everyone. 0:41 All right, we'll say good morning. 0:42 Good morning. Let us begin begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning. 0:46 Should have to thank our time and Torah sponsors for the month of Sivan. 0:50 Have a good day in Lithuania. 0:51 Avram Shimon ben Kalman ben Aryeh Tzvi for dedicating all the shirim and drashos this month in memory of Refael Yechiel ben Avraham. 0:58 Zichrono livracha. Mr. Jerome Kalman, Avram's father. 1:01 Our week of learning sponsors, anonymous sponsorship for a refuah shleimah for Eliezer ben Elisheva. 1:06 Week of learning sponsors, Jeff and Karen Cohn in commemoration of the 16th yahrzeit of Karen's father, Meyer Aksman, and wishing mazel tov to their grandchildren, Rena and Yisrael Katz, on their recent marriage. 1:17 Our daf yomi sponsors for today, Alan and Sarah Steinberg, in the zechus of continued health for ben Chana bas Sosha, and for an ultimate refuah shleimah on the merit of our daf yomi Torah, all of the neshamos have an aliyah, 1:27 all the families in need of a refuah, all those in need of a refuah. 1:29 Should happen again with Colel Chibas Zion Kollel Shas Yisrael bimheira b'yameinu. 1:33 Look after our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael. 1:35 Allow our holy soldiers to be successful in all ma'asei yadeihem. 1:39 Which we should merit Hashem. 1:41 The core of to a beautiful uplifting Kabbalas HaTorah. 1:43 With that, we'll say that let us begin today's daf. 1:45 We have a lot to do today. 1:46 We left off in a very awkward spot. 1:49 But okay, we left off about four lines up. 1:52 We're just running out of time. 1:53 Four lines up from the Mishnah. 1:55 Amar Rava. So we'll say remember again, very quickly, gemara had an interesting case, two cases the gemara contrasted. 2:00 One is where the individual is shocheting, and remember for all intents and purposes, 49% of the trachea of the konah was cut. 2:07 It was cut, and then the Yisrael comes along and he shochets the rest of it. 2:10 The braisa said, it's a kasher shchitah. 2:12 It's a kasher shchitah. 2:12 Shchitah is good. Conversely, if let's say the Yisrael is going in and cutting the trachea, he gets to the 49% mark, and then there's a hole. 2:19 And let's say the hole is the next 3%, 2%, right? 2:22 Take it to 51%. 2:24 Halacha l'maaseh, the shchitah is pasul. 2:26 And the gemara wanted to explain what's the distinction between those two cases. 2:30 That in the first case, that's the equivalent of an akum starting the shchitah, but a Yisrael finishing the shchitah, which is going to be good. 2:36 The second case is more like a Yisrael beginning the shchitah and an akum completing the shchitah, in which case the shchitah is not going to be good. 2:43 So, the gemara said, "Amora rabba, shappir karvei." 2:45 So, remember again, so he called him so Rebi Yochanan called Rabba, Rebi Yochanan called Rabba, um I'm sorry, Rebi Yochanan called Rabba, "Akum akum." 2:54 Akum now he wasn't calling him akum akum. 2:56 He wasn't calling him an akum, but he was saying is, just because you keep saying it's like shchitah is akum doesn't make it true. 3:01 So, Amora rabba, Rabba said, "No, no, shappir karvei l'ovikho haven." 3:04 Ovikho haven makes sense. 3:05 It makes sense that he said ovikho ovikho. 3:07 Why? "Bishlama ha shas mid'havlei Yisrael mishchat rubo l'shachat." 3:11 So, it makes sense again in the case where the Yisrael should have shocheted the rov, but he didn't. 3:15 "Kinavka keyusa b'yado d'ovikho haven kinavka." 3:18 So, in both cases, in the case where let's say the Yisrael went ahead and actually cut the first 49% of the trachea, then an akum comes along and shochets the rest. 3:26 The it makes sense why the shchitah is not good. 3:28 Why? Because at the moment that the animal died, which the gemara once again is assuming is at the 50% mark, halacha l'maaseh, it wasn't akum that took the life of the animal. 3:37 "Ava el hahalacha." But in our case over here, our case being the case where there's already a pre-existing hole in the trachea, "Ava hahalacha, mikti mishchat shochet." 3:46 At the end of the day, it was the Yisrael who cut what was needed to be cut in the trachea. 3:52 Mali b'makom nakuv, mali pagum nakuv. 3:55 But what does it matter again if the first 49% was cut or the 50 to 52% was cut? 4:01 What does it matter? 4:01 The point over here is there was no active akkum involvement. 4:05 It's all being done by a yid. 4:07 What does it matter ultimately again where the hole is? 4:10 Okay, so we'll say I just want to point out obviously that the the looming question all of this is we would think just off the bat that having a trachea that's 49% cut by definition makes the animal treifa. 4:22 Okay, so remember we haven't done this a perek called ille treifus. 4:26 Take a wild guess what ille treifus talks about, right? 4:29 So we're going to we'll get into all of that. 4:30 We're going to obviously sidestepping that issue right now, but we'll we'll circle back to that. 4:34 Good. So what does it say? 4:35 Now we come to another interesting sugia mishnah. 4:37 Hashochet min hatzadin shchitaso ksheira. 4:39 If you shochet from the sides of the neck, ultimately again the shchita is going to be the shchita is going to be kasher. 4:48 So again what it says is interesting. 4:49 This is another words, as much as we've been focusing right, remember again on shchita from the we'll call it the front part of the neck, ultimately the mishnah says if you shochet from the side, the shchita is still good. 5:01 Hamolech min hatzadin, but if you do melika again we'll say remember melika only applies in what context? 5:07 Korbanos, right? Korbanos are of bird bird offerings. 5:10 If you want to eat a kosher bird, remember you can't do melika. 5:14 Actually if you do melika on a non-sacrificial animal, that'll make the animal into an aveila, right? 5:18 Which means again it can base tumah. 5:20 So melika is only done to to to two criteria. 5:24 Number one, birds. Number two, korbanos. 5:28 So on the other hand, hamolech min hatzadin melikaso pesula. 5:31 If you do melika from the sides of the neck of the bird, ultimately again the melika is going to be pesul. 5:36 Hashochet min ha'oref shchitaso pesula. 5:39 So it says if you shochet min ha'oref. 5:40 Now what's interesting is the gemara oref literally means the back. 5:45 Now what's interesting is we know to translate or already as the neck as the neck. 5:50 We're going to the Gamara is going to the Gamara is going to a little bit struggle with the etymology of the word in a bit. 5:55 So, what what what's for right now, we'll just translate it the way we know it to mean. 5:59 Hashog min orif shchitaso psula. 6:01 If you shecht from the back of the back of the neck of the animal. 6:05 You take a cow, you take any animal, you shecht from the back of the neck, ultimately again the shchita is going to be the shchita is going to be pasul. 6:13 Good. Rashi says over here Rashi said well, actually let's let's go on a little bit. 6:17 The The idea would normally be is because the pashutness if you're shechting from the back of the neck, by definition you're going to render the animal a treifa. 6:25 Right? Why? Because you have to cut through the spinal cord first. 6:28 So, if you're cutting through the spinal cord, by definition the animal is a treifa. 6:31 By the time you get to the simanim, it doesn't matter anymore. 6:34 Once the animal is a treifa, you can't really create a good shchita. 6:37 Okay, but we'll see that in the Gamara. 6:38 Next. If you do malika from the neck, the malika's kasher. 6:47 Because as I say, obviously malika is davka done from the neck. 6:50 Hashog min atzavar shchitaso ksheira. 6:53 If you do shchita from the neck, ultimately again the shchita is kasher. 6:57 Hamolek min atzavar, but if you do malika from the front of the neck, ultimately again malika's also psula. 7:03 So, what's interesting, right? 7:05 If you do malika from the front of the neck of the animal, the malika is going to be pasul. 7:08 So, the Gamara says shakala orif kasha lemalika. 7:11 The entire neck is fit for malika. 7:16 Vachalatzavar kasha leshchita. And the entire So, let me say it differently. 7:20 The entire back of the neck is fit for malika. 7:23 The entire front of the neck is fit for shchita. 7:27 Nimtza kasha beshchita pasul lemalika. 7:29 Kasha lemalika pasul leshchita. 7:31 So, here's the easy way to remember it. 7:32 Whatever works for shchita doesn't work for malika. 7:36 Whatever works for malika will not work for shchita. 7:39 Okay, great. Says the Gamara my orif. 7:41 So, what says remember again, here's the interesting part. 7:43 Now the Gamora says what is this what is this word oraf? 7:46 What is this remember again? 7:47 So the mission said two things. 7:48 The mission said number one that malika is mena oraf, shita can't be done mena oraf. 7:54 What is oraf? E lay ma oraf mamish and again I will say the literal like etymological definition of oraf would normally refer as we'll see in just a moment to the back of the head. 8:04 Back of the head. 8:05 So if you say that literally means the back of the head, my area show head and you don't know what it means, right? 8:10 So if that's the case again then it sounds only shita that's not good from the oraf, but even malika is not good from the oraf as well. 8:16 So the Gamora says me mul arpo amra mana. 8:19 The Torah itself says opposite the neck or opposite that right opposite the oraf below arpo. 8:26 And ultimately again not arpo mamish ala my oraf, right? 8:30 What is oraf means so what say here's this interesting as well. 8:32 So oraf so the Gamora says ala my oraf me mul oraf. 8:36 Me mul oraf means the back of the neck. 8:39 K diktani sayfa kol oraf kasha le malika. 8:42 As you saw in the sayfa the entire neck ultimately again is fit for malika. 8:47 So the Gamora says men hanimili where do we know this from? 8:49 So the turn around me mul arpo. 8:51 It says the pasuk says that you should do malika me mul arpo. 8:54 Mul haroa es ha oraf. 8:57 It is the literally again the back that sees the face, right? 9:01 The back that sees the face so the back of the neck. 9:03 The omer for who you shave me muli the omer ki panu alay oraf velo panim. 9:09 My the omer so again I will say the pasuk quotes the pasuk quotes two two psukim over here. 9:13 For who you shave me muli so mul means opposite and then it says ki panu alay oraf. 9:19 Then it says ultimately again he turned his neck towards me velo panim. 9:23 So mul oraf means the back of the neck. 9:27 My my the omer what does that say add that extra pasuk? 9:30 Fikhi tema oraf kufelo ya done and heikha. 9:32 The nay the mul did they heikha. 9:34 You might have thought oraf itself we don't know what oraf ref How do I know what or ref is? 9:38 So the Gamara says, therefore if I don't know what or ref is, how do I know what opposite the or ref is? 9:42 Tashma, key pano a light or ref velopnim. 9:45 So velopanim, therefore the possuk says, he showed me his or ref and not his face. 9:50 So from that possuk I can glean what's or ref, right? 9:53 It's the opposite of face, which is going to be the neck. 9:55 So the Gamara says, uh I'm sorry, michlal dor ha de panim, to teach me that the or ref is opposite the face, therefore it is the neck. 10:02 Good. So the possuk says, kol ha ma'asim, the mission just work through the etymological issues and understand that or ref mul or po means opposite the back of the neck. 10:11 Okay, incredible. The possuk says very interesting. 10:13 Amri bnei Rabbi Chiya, the sons of Rabbi Chiya said the following. 10:16 Listen to this. Mitzvas malika machsir simanim la'achoreha of mulay. 10:21 Okay, so the possuk says, listen to how interesting this is. 10:24 Now remember again, when you do malika, so remember just I didn't I didn't I didn't post any pictures today because I think it's somewhat intuitive, right? 10:30 You have the bird and right we so now you're holding the bird, you're holding the bird in your hand. 10:35 Right? Remember again, Cohen is doing malika with an extended thumbnail. 10:39 Using my left hand, right? 10:41 Extended thumbnail. So remember again, in order to do malika, he's piercing the back of the neck. 10:46 The first thing he's hitting there would be the vertebrae. 10:49 So now the sons of Rabbi Chiya says something very interesting. 10:52 That what the Cohen has to do is he has to manipulate the bird and he has to move the simanim, the kana and the vashet, literally in front of the vertebrae. 11:00 But it doesn't literally mean the front, it just means to the side. 11:03 What the sons of Rabbi Chiya are saying is that malika is done on the simanim without piercing the spine, without piercing the vertebrae. 11:11 So just manip- and you can manipulate it in a bird. 11:13 You can actually move it you can we'll see you can manipulate an animal also. 11:16 You could just move it to the side so it's on the side ultimately again of the vertebrae. 11:20 Now again, two well actually that's the inside. 11:23 So mitzvas malika machsir simanim la'achoreha or ref or mulay. 11:26 So the mitzvas malika the sons of Rabbi Chiya said is move the simanim literally again to the back of the neck, but really means to the side of the neck so that you're piercing them without piercing the spinal cord. 11:37 And then you do Malika see Ikeda Amri. 11:39 So we'll say that's the first version. 11:41 Alternate version Ikeda Amri af maxier the Ikeda Amri maxier dafka. 11:46 So now there's there's a machlokes in what they said. 11:48 Did they say you have to do this? 11:51 You have to move the simanim ultimately to the side of the vertebrae? 11:55 Or did they say you could even do this? 11:57 In other words, is this a halacha that you have ahead and pierce the simanim without piercing the vertebrae? 12:03 Or that no, you could even do it like this if you want to? 12:05 Almost command af maxier if it makes more sense to say not that you have to, but that you can. 12:12 You don't have to, but you can manipulate the vertebrae in this way. 12:16 So my says why? 12:17 How do you know that? 12:17 Me my such a very interesting me dictating has show him in how or if she toss up su law. 12:23 So my will say what's that law? 12:25 If you shaft from the back of the neck ultimately again the sheet doesn't is possible. 12:28 My will say why is that? 12:30 Why is that? Because once again, because the assumption is if you shafting from the back of the neck, what are you hitting first? 12:35 You're hitting the vertebrae. 12:36 If you're hitting the vertebrae, you're rendering the animal a treif all. 12:39 So watch this. So the my says a mole or if Malika so share and will say top of half 28 these are maxier dafka my area mole like I could do show him in a minute. 12:50 Now again I will say listen to this. 12:51 If the halacha was maxier, maxier means that you're obligated to move the simanim to the side. 12:57 Let's say by Malika, you're obligated to move the simanim by the side so that you pierce the simanim first without piercing the vertebrae. 13:02 If that's the case I will say then what? 13:04 Then you should be able to shaft from the back of the neck by shrita also. 13:08 Right? Why? I will say by the way, you could see this. 13:10 I'm going to send an image later. 13:12 You could easily illustrate this is not with a cow, but with a sheep. 13:16 With a sheep if you ever see a shrita on a sheep when you put the sheep on its on its back, you literally could go ahead and grab the simanim. 13:23 You you can grab the simanim from the neck of the sheep and like extend them. 13:27 So, technically, see, I guess if you're if you have some good hand-finger dexterity, right, you can move those simanim to the side so that shechita takes place on the back of the neck without hitting the vertebrae. 13:39 So, the point that the Gemara is making over here is that al Halacha l'Maaseh, if the Halacha by melika was that you must move the simanim to the side, therefore, when you're shechting, when you're doing melika from the back of 13:49 the neck, you're hitting the simanim first, if that's the case, you should be able to that way also. 13:56 Because then you're shechting from the back of the neck, you're hitting the simanim first, you're not hitting the vertebrae, there's no treifah issue. 14:02 But the fact that the Mishnah said that you can never do shechita from the back of the neck indicates to us what the Halacha l'Maaseh af machshir u'mastin b'Halacha. 14:11 Rather, it must be that by melika, the Halacha is if you want to manipulate the simanim to put them towards the back of the neck, you could do that. 14:20 You don't have to do that. 14:22 You don't have to do that, but you can do that. 14:24 But ultimately, by shechita, by shechita, and we're just talking about a case where you didn't do that, and therefore my shechita would not be good. 14:31 Incredible. Amar Rabbi Yannai. 14:33 So, Rabbi Yannai says, listen to this what I'll say. 14:34 Rabbi Yannai So, Rabbi Yannai this statement was made by the sons of Rabbi Chiya. 14:38 Sayfer So, the sons of Rabbi Chiya are introducing to us is the following idea. 14:41 That al Halacha l'Maaseh, when you do melika on a bird, if you want to manipulate the simanim so that the simanim are by the back of the neck, so those are the first things that you sever instead of the spinal 14:49 cord, you can do that. 14:51 So, Rabbi Yannai says, Yikabluha Rabbanan et Tshuvasan. 14:54 The Rabbanan Yikabluha Rabbanan et Tshuvasan. 14:56 What she is the last white line. 14:57 Yikabluha Rabbanan et Tshuvasan. 14:59 Anan b'Rabbi Chiya. Let these young men go ahead and accept the following answer, the following refutation. 15:07 Dikduk Dikduknei Nimsah Kasheh b'Shechita Pasul b'Melika. 15:13 Kasheh b'Melika Kasheh b'Melika Pasul b'Shechita. 15:15 Now, I've also brought again, at the end of the day, at the end of the Mishnah, at the Mishnah espoused the the What was the rule? 15:21 Anything that works for Malika is not going to work for Shchita. 15:25 And anything that works for Shchita is not going to work for Malika. 15:28 So the now what does this come to exclude? 15:31 So the this must be coming to go ahead and exclude the following case. 15:39 That if you move the to the back of the neck, that ultimately again it won't work. 15:44 I'm rather not necessarily perhaps it's coming to include the case of Shane is a tooth and Siporen is a nail. 15:55 That ultimately again potentially these items could be used for Shchita and not for Malika. 16:00 Shane but how do you cut but Shane we already learned that they're not going to work for Shchita either. 16:08 So this is very interesting. 16:09 It comes to exclude ultimately again now what's maybe? 16:13 Maybe is cutting with a back and forth motion. 16:17 So that works for Shchita does not work for Malika. 16:23 So in other words both say that's even true even with a nail. 16:26 Right? Even if the coin were to take his fingernail and go back and forth back and forth that's how that's not how Malika is done. 16:32 So the says okay that's how do you do that's fine according to the opinion that says that maybe cutting in a back and forth motion is possible by Malika. 16:44 And the man that says but according to the opinion that says maybe back and forth ultimately again by Malika works what is there to say? 16:53 To which the happens to hold that cutting in a back and forth motion even with your nail right even with your nail ultimately again is not going to be good by Malika. 17:09 Okay so so interestingly enough so just just we're going to see that I'm just a few minutes but just to kind of so of the here are introducing this idea of potentially shifting the simanim before you do melika, right? 17:23 Ultimately, again, by shrita it's not going to work because the mishna already disproved this actually work, right? 17:27 The mishna already said, whatever works by melika doesn't work by shrita, which already tells us that by definition melika is done from the back of the neck, which means shrita is not done from the back of the neck. 17:36 No matter how you're manipulating the simanim, right? 17:38 That that that is just that that is espoused by the mishna. 17:41 What's interesting is Ben Abihya, is there is there this opinion of dafka shifting the simanim to the back of the neck or not? 17:49 Like is is is that a thing? 17:51 So that seems to be ultimately again a machlokes. 17:54 That's piece number one. 17:55 Piece number two, can you do melika with a back and forth motion? 18:00 Can the cohen take his nail and essentially use his knife use his nail as a shrita knife going back and forth cutting? 18:06 Now, essentially, not plunging, but cutting. 18:09 Normally, when we think about melika, how's melika done? 18:11 Literally, the cohen inserts his nail into the back of the neck of the bird. 18:15 What if the cohen uses his nail as a knife and he goes back and forth, does that work? 18:19 That's a machlokes. That's a machlokes, so just hold on to that. 18:22 Anything and everything you're going to need to know about melika you're going to have within 4 minutes, I know some of you are on edge about that. 18:27 I got you. I got you, I promise. 18:29 Says the gemara, let's go weiter. 18:30 As the gemara says, "Amor of kana, mitzvas melika kotzetz v'yored v'zohi mitzvah." 18:37 So of kana says, listen to this, the mitzvah of melika is kotzetz v'yored. 18:41 Kotzetz v'yored means that halacha l'maaseh kotzetz means you literally you cut and you go down. 18:48 Now, what this means is as follows, this is the way we typically or historically understood melika. 18:53 There's the insertion of a nail, right? 18:54 That's kotzetz, it's like a severing and yored. 18:57 Now, the reason he says yored and he doesn't say is because remember the bird, in order to fully do melika, what you're going to have to do is you're going to have to get in between the vertebrae, right? 19:07 So therefore, the best chance at a seamless melika is when you do it at an angle. 19:12 Right? That will allow you to get in there. 19:14 So, therefore, that's the that's the Now, again, we're going to see it doesn't necessarily have to be done at an angle, but just from a practical perspective, the Gamara says "Kodesh vi ored v'zohi mitzvah Sorry, Rabbi Avin. 19:26 Rabbi Avin said Sorry, Savri Savri Sorry, Savra Rabbi Avin amar Kodesh vi ored in molech may be low." 19:34 So, Rabbi Avin is saying that what is Rabbi Kahana coming to explain to us? 19:37 Rabbi Kahana is coming to say that halacha l'maaseh it's davka the insertion of the nail that does melika, using your nail as a knife and going back and forth would not be a proper melika. 19:50 Amora Rabbi Amiya Kodesh melika may be melika kashya. 19:53 Maybe not. Maybe not. 19:54 In other words, maybe certainly using using your finger using your nail as a knife would work. 19:59 U'mai zohi mitzvah. What does it mean when it says this is the mitzvah? 20:03 This is the way to do melika. 20:05 Perhaps what it means is af zohi mitzvah. 20:08 Maybe it comes to mean that halacha l'maaseh this is even a way to do melika. 20:13 In other words, maybe using your using your nail like a knife certainly works for melika. 20:19 Right? But, even if you don't Why? 20:21 Because again, that's the model we have by shchita. 20:24 Right? Is molech may be. 20:25 But, maybe we're thinking maybe Rabbi Kahana is going to say "But, even going ahead and just inserting your nail and not using it like a knife would work as also." 20:33 So, let me share with you the Rambam. 20:34 It's a very interesting Rambam. 20:36 The Rambam is in The Rambam is in Hilchos Maaseh Ha Korbanos Perek Vav Halacha Yud Gimel. 20:43 So, listen to this. 20:44 Keitzad molkin? How do you do melika? 20:47 So, the Rambam says "Kodesh vi ored b'tziporen mimola ored." 20:52 So, first of all, melika is done from the back of the neck. 20:54 Okay? So, that we've already known. 20:56 Now, he uses this exact lashon of Rabbi Kahana. 20:59 Kodesh vi ored, which means insertion of the nail in a downward motion. 21:05 Now, listen to what he writes. 21:06 However, im ratza l'holich l'havi molech may be. 21:10 Wow, incredible. Who knew? 21:12 But if you want to go ahead and use your coin, you want to use your nail as a knife and go back and forth, you can do that. 21:20 Fascinating. We'll say that is the halacha. 21:21 So again, never knew this never knew this. 21:23 We always thought just malika is just simple insertion of the nail. 21:26 Halacha l'maaseh, if you want to go back and forth, the Rambam says you could do that. 21:30 The Rambam writes dores dores. 21:33 So we'll say furthermore, this is actually very interesting. 21:35 So remember, malika is not shchita. 21:38 Malika is not shchita. 21:39 So how do we know this? 21:41 The way we know this is because the very things that disqualify shchita are part and parcel of malika. 21:47 The greatest example of this is, remember again, by by shchita, one of the psulim is drisa. 21:52 What's drisa? What's drisa? 21:54 We I mean we didn't see it we have to we haven't learned the sugia, but it means pressing the knife. 21:58 Now there's a rule say remember again, the shchita knife is very sharp. 22:00 Let's say you just take the knife and you just press it against the neck of the animal. 22:03 You cut through everything. 22:05 That invalidates the shchita. 22:06 Shchita has to be done with a cutting motion. 22:10 By malika, the very essence of malika is drisa. 22:14 Right? Because what are you doing? 22:15 You're taking your nail and you're pushing it in. 22:18 So the point over here is that halacha l'maaseh the Rambam writes that that malika is not shchita. 22:23 Malika is something different. 22:24 Again, you can you can do it through molech maybe or you could plunge your nail in. 22:29 Okay? He goes on and says other things which we'll talk about. 22:32 The nekra simanim eno choshesh the choteach The nekra simanim eno choshesh ultimately again the Rambam says so this is also something else which we'll discuss which is that halacha l'maaseh if the simanim become dislodged, we'll talk about this because in 22:46 general in an animal when you're shochting an animal, if the trachea or the esophagus get dislodged from their place, that makes the animal a treifa. 22:55 By birds, that is not the case. 22:58 I I should say by korbanos, that is not the case. 23:00 If something gets dislodged, it's not a problem. 23:02 Look what he writes. 23:03 The whole take shishra or mufrakes below of basar. 23:07 So, what's the say? 23:07 The halacha is is fascinating. 23:09 So, halacha l'maaseh, you cut through the spinal cord. 23:13 You cut through the spinal cord. 23:14 Um mufrakeh, right? Through shishra mufrakes below of basar. 23:17 Okay, so actually now we'll see we'll see the rest of the side. 23:19 So, we'll say but that is halacha l'maaseh by by some malika. 23:22 Number one, done from the back of the neck. 23:23 Number two, done with a nail, not with a knife. 23:26 Number three, the Rambam says, however you want to cut, you can cut. 23:29 You want to press in, plunge in, what he calls what Rav Kahana called kotzais v'yoreid, that's fine. 23:35 You want to do molech umayvi, back and forth like a cutting motion like a knife, that's fine. 23:40 Incredible. Let's go back to Rav Yirmiyahu Amora. 23:45 So, Rema says as follows. 23:47 The entire area on the front of the neck, which is kasher for shchita, that that that parallel area opposite the neck is kasher for malika. 23:56 Okay? Ha [snorts] pasul b'shchita, pasul b'malika. 23:59 Now, what that sounds like is whatever area on the neck you can't do shchita on, you also can't do malika on the back corresponding parts of the neck, either. 24:07 Let me utay maina. 24:08 What is this coming to exclude? 24:09 Eelu m'utay ikar simanim, if it's coming to exclude ultimately again, the uprooting, right? 24:15 Ikar simanim means Rav Ashi say, ikar is ikar is one of the psulei shchita where essentially what you do is you go out and you uproot the siman the siman instead of cutting through it. 24:25 The hot honey Rav Chiskia ain ikar simana b'of. 24:28 That psul by shchita does not apply by birds. 24:31 That's what we just read the Ramban, that if the siman if the cutter of the veshet is uprooted is dislodged, by animals that is problematic, by birds it is not. 24:41 Amora Pappa, let me utay rosho. 24:43 Rather no, no, what it comes to exclude ultimately again is the head. 24:47 You can't do malika on the head of the animal. 24:50 That is what we're saying, malika has to be done by the neck, not in the head. 24:53 You might as well say rosho pshuto, that's obvious. 24:55 Mimul or pal amrachmana, v'lo b'rosho. 24:58 The lashon of the Torah by malika is what? 25:00 Me more or paw, which means opposite of the neck. 25:03 Opposite of the neck means that got the neck and not the head. 25:07 Myro show, so what was it? 25:08 I would have thought like this. 25:10 Myro show, shipui ro show. 25:12 Shipui ro show means from the from the what we call the the indentations. 25:16 Slant, the slant on the back of the head could go on the neck up me shipui ro show. 25:21 The hagrim the also at the mota ta soy. 25:24 See what I thought like this, what if you began ultimately again the Malika from the bottom part of the head and then extended downward until you got into the neck area. 25:32 Okay, Drafuna Amravasi Drafuna Amravasi in hagrim shlish, the shachat shlish shlish, psula. 25:40 Going back to yesterday's daf. 25:41 If you did a grama, right? 25:42 It was say you began 1/3 of the shchita in the wrong spot, and then you did 2/3 in the proper spot, ultimately the shchita is not going to be good. 25:51 I don't know if I have a great rabba rabba shi. 25:53 How did the rabba I has got in interesting one of the above lo amran el el aman damar in shchita mil off min a Torah. 25:59 Okay, so what say now let's go back. 26:00 Let's go back and and just analyze it just a moment. 26:03 So so Rabbi Hisda said, ain ikursi man and above. 26:08 That ultimately again if the simanim, right? 26:10 By by stabbing an animal, if the simanim get dislodged. 26:14 Suppose say this can be let's say one of the simanim gets dislodged, right? 26:17 It's separated from the jaw bone or something else, right? 26:20 It just this gets dislodged. 26:22 That that is a that that makes the animal treif. 26:25 Right? You know what you that animal is done. 26:26 You can't use it for proper shchita anymore. 26:28 But yet but yet what we call ikur or the uprooting of simanim does not apply by birds. 26:35 So now the gemara says that statement only works in accordance with the opinion that's actually quite shocking. 26:40 That says ain shchita mil off min a Torah. 26:44 So what was it? 26:44 It's very interesting. We are going to see this machlokes Rashi references that is on daf chof ches, so about a week from now, we are going to see this machlokes. 26:53 Is there a biblical mandate for shchita by birds? 26:56 Now, remember, when shchita itself is expressed, shchita is expressed by animals. 27:02 Right? These are the common expressed by livestock. 27:06 So, the shaila just is everyone is in agreement that if you want to eat a bird, you have to do shchita. 27:12 The shaila is what is the nature of that obligation? 27:15 Is that the shaila or is that the shaila? 27:17 So, watch this. So, the shaila says as follows, that when we say the opinion that says in shaila in the shaila of the shaila of the bird get dislodged, it's not problematic. 27:27 That goes according to the opinion that says there is no biblical mandate for shchita. 27:33 Which makes sense. I'm in base 20 B shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila again the shaila shaila 27:50 shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila would be a shaila of shaila shaila means that the dislodging of the shaila would render the bird a shaila. 27:58 But see, take a look at the top shaila on shaila shaila a very interesting shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila How 28:11 beautiful is it to see those words, right? 28:14 In the days leading up to shaila. 28:16 Right? How incredible. So, remember, shaila here's what we have to understand. 28:20 There is no shaila that talks about shaila by a bird. 28:24 Right? The only the only thing in the shaila that we have regarding birds is by shaila. 28:28 It's by shaila. So, therefore, again, if you were to say that shaila is the shaila by birds, what that would mean is it is a shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila 28:41 shaila shaila shaila shaila shaila Ultimately again, so if you hold that I'm reading shaila top Rashi 20B. 28:47 If you hold that there is shchita for an off midoraisa, that would mean that it's a halacha l'Moshe miSinai, a halacha l'Moshe miSinai. 28:55 The Rabbi Amram, the publican Rabbi Elazar Parah Kasha, the Sanhedrin Rabbi says here, here's just a little snippet of this discussion. 29:03 The Sanhedrin Rabbi Omer, "V'zavachta kasher tzei d'sicha." 29:07 You shall shecht, you shall shecht, right, as I commanded you. 29:10 "M'lamed she nistave Moshe al halachos shchita b'al peh." 29:15 Now you know what it says, "At Har Sinai, Moshe Rabbeinu, Moshe Rabbeinu was was commanded regarding the halachos of shchita b'al peh." 29:23 Now you know what it says, remember again, the laws of shchita, right, we we I mean we're not so far into Chulin, but the laws of shchita, which which there's a lot of them, where do you find them? 29:31 The answer is they're not in the Torah. 29:32 Torah just says you have to slaughter. 29:34 Those halachos these halachos are g'mar sh'hiyah halacha d'Moshe These are not in the Torah. 29:40 They're halacha l'Moshe miSinai. 29:41 I will say something very interesting. 29:43 The reason why this is very important is very important, you know, on Shavuos, this is really incredible, on Shavuos, there is the minhag to go ahead and eat milchigs. 29:52 It's a minhag to eat dairy. 29:53 So there's a lot of discussion where exactly does this minhag come from? 29:56 Especially it's a strange minhag because Shavuos is a Yom Tov. 29:59 Yom Tov has a biblical mitzvah of simcha. 30:02 Simcha usually is defined as basar and yayin, meat and wine. 30:06 But yet Shavuos there's a strong minhag to eat milchigs. 30:08 What's what's the p'shat? 30:10 So many explain a very simple idea that when Moshe Rabbeinu came down from Har Sinai Torah, the Jews did not know the laws of shchita. 30:18 Because we did not know the laws of shchita yet cuz they were given to Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai, we did not know how to properly prepare meat. 30:26 So therefore because we did not know how to prepare meat, therefore again the meals on Shavuos, so to speak, were milchigs. 30:33 That's why the custom is milchigs. 30:34 Just to point out and it makes a lot of sense because again, as opposed to so many bodies of Jewish law which are communicated by Moshe Rabbeinu directly, this is halacha Moshe Sinai. 30:43 This is not written. 30:44 So, therefore, we read incredible. 30:53 So, again, just to point out, just you understand how profound this is. 30:56 The idea of even where where do you cut? 30:58 Where do you cut? 30:59 Right? So, we know you cut the cona, you cut the veshet, cut the trachea, cut the esophagus. 31:03 You have to cut the Mostly, none of this is written. 31:06 None of this is written at all. 31:08 It is all halakha Moshe Sinai. 31:11 So, therefore, again, that the makhlokes is are birds included in the halakha Moshe Sinai or not? 31:19 Or not? So, you could appreciate, by the way, why there's makhlokes because since the whole thing is halakha Moshe Sinai, there's some level of ambiguity as to what was included in the halakha Moshe Sinai. 31:28 So, therefore, again, take a step back. 31:29 So, the Gemara says like this. 31:30 We said before of Kahana said that halakha Moshe Sinai there's no iker by of, which means that if you dislodge, if the simanim, the trachea trachea and and esophagus are dislodged by a bird, it's fine. 31:43 It's fine. It doesn't disqualify the bird. 31:45 So, the Gemara wanted to suggest that makes sense according to the opinion that says that shchita of a bird is not mid'oraisa. 31:52 But, according to the opinion that says that shchita of a bird is min'atorah, then it should be subject to iker. 31:59 Then it should be treated the same way like an animal is treated. 32:01 And just like by an animal, if the simanim are uprooted, dislodged, it's a treifa. 32:05 It's not good. So, the bird follows suit. 32:08 Amar lei, he said adra, because it's just the opposite. 32:11 Adra ba'al mesabra, the exact opposite would seem to be true. 32:14 The man d'amar yeish shchita of min'atorah, according to the opinion that says that there is a biblical mandate for shchita for for for shchita for an of, iker meimar, d'ahakhi agmurei, de'ein iker. 32:25 It's possible to both say that what? 32:28 Shchita of an of is also halakha Moshe Sinai. 32:30 And the halakha Moshe Sinai ever said that shchita by a bird is different than shchita by an animal. 32:36 And shchita of an animal is subject to eager to this right to the to the this this this lodging of the simanim but by a bird it doesn't apply. 32:43 However, that feel a man came a behima and even though the emotion is seen I would say that the shita of a bird is like a shita for a behima the Indian eager lowly behima when it comes to the dislodging 32:56 of the simanim a bird is treated differently than a behima. 33:00 I don't mind ain't shita of minatora but according to the opinion that says that there is no shita for a bird minatora it's not included in the motion of Sinai element of from rather again it is just I'm not just 33:13 it is a rabbinic may be a law. 33:15 So it's very interesting but if you hold that there's no shita for an off minatora I saw but rather again it's rabbinic. 33:22 Now in general the rabbinic always model their laws after what? 33:26 After biblical law. If that's the case that would make more sense to say that the rabbinic shita of a bird would be modeled after the rabbinic shita of an animal just like by the sorry after the biblical shita by an 33:38 animal just like the biblical shita of an animal is subject to eager is subject to the dislodging of the simanim so to is the shita of a bird. 33:46 Incredible. So you know what I'm saying? 33:48 So so bottom line the you know I wanted to suggest that this concept of whether or not a bird is subject to eager yes eager which means is the dislodging of the simanim a problem a problem for the shita of 34:02 a bird. You know what I'm trying to say? 34:03 I wanted to suggest that this lines up purposely with whether or not the shita of a bird is doraisa or drabanan but to which the says no it doesn't necessarily line up. 34:11 Okay but there's that locus. 34:13 Fine the says I'm already rabbinic I see how to turn by ain't eager but off and ain't eager but off that which we said that a bird is not subject to the uprooting of the dislodging of the simanim low element 34:27 of malika that's only true by malika. 34:30 By malika that's true. 34:31 I want to be shita yesh iker. 34:34 I want to say by Shchita, absolutely there is a din of iker. 34:37 So, again, by Malika, by Malika, we don't care about dislodging of the simanim. 34:43 But, when you're shcheting a bird, when you're shcheting a bird, absolutely it is subject to iker. 34:49 So, another very interesting distinction over here, which I would say makes a lot of sense, because remember again, altogether by by Malika, Malika is not Shchita. 34:58 So, it makes sense to say that in general many of the halachas of Shchita don't apply by Malika. 35:03 Right? So, again, but even if you say that there's no there is no iker by Malika, there will be iker ultimately by the Shchita of a bird. 35:10 Incredible. I have Jeremy on the small call kosher connect double or of kosher connect double or of kosher kosher Malika. 35:20 A possible possible. Now, again, I will say, now remember, but yet we said before we we I we espoused the principle always the principle that whatever is kosher by Shchita, ultimately again, the same corresponds in the back of the neck 35:33 by Malika. Now, again, I will say, what we would infer from that is a possible possible. 35:38 Whatever is problematic, whatever is problematic by Shchita, would also be problematic by Malika. 35:45 If that's the case, I will say, wouldn't it make sense to say that the same way that iker is problematic by Shchita, iker should be problematic by Malika as well. 35:54 How hopefully ultimately again, this will be subject of Malika. 35:57 So, I will say, so I I I will just point out something interesting, which is just a few words of halacha l'maiseh. 36:05 So, first of all, we pasken and pasken that yesh Shchita of min haTorah. 36:12 We pasken the halacha l'maiseh that mitzvah of the idea of shcheting a bird is is a d'oraisa. 36:17 Is d'oraisa all part of the same halacha l'Moshe Sinai. 36:23 Therefore, when you shchet a bird, the same halachas that apply to shchet of an animal, applies to shchita of a bird. 36:29 And therefore, the same way that ikkur, if the simanim are dislodged by behema, it's problematic, it's also problematic by a bird. 36:37 Now, of course, this is all by shchita. 36:39 Melika is a whole different set of circumstances, right? 36:42 Melika, remember again, is not shchita. 36:44 Melika is quite literally its own animal, its own entity. 36:47 And therefore, again, there is no >> [clears throat] >> there is no ikkur by melika. 36:51 If the simanim are dislodged by melika, does not invalidate the melika. 36:55 to see what Z'eiri says. 36:55 Z'eiri says as follows. 36:56 Let's say an interesting case here. 36:58 Nishpera mafreges berov basar im nevela. 37:03 So, Z'eiri says as follows, that halacha l'maaseh that halacha l'maaseh, um and I will say I just want to point out also by melika, by melika, the whole reason why ikkur is not a problem is why? 37:16 Because none of the other psulim of shchita apply by melika as well. 37:20 Rashi points this out. 37:21 He says, "Dechevan dedarsa vechalalda lo pasli, ikkur simanim nami lo pasli." 37:26 Aval bishchita, so remember again, the concept of ikkur, right? 37:29 That ikkur is a disqualifying component in shchita is because that's part of the construct of hilchos shchita. 37:35 But by melika, in general, so many of the things that you can't do by shchita, you can do by melika. 37:42 Therefore, it makes sense to say that ikkur is not a disqualification by melika. 37:46 Okay, fine. So, now comes along Z'eiri. 37:48 Z'eiri says as follows. 37:49 "Nishpera mafreges berov basar imma." 37:52 Right? If the neck bone breaks and the majority of the flesh is cut along with it, ultimately again, what's the halacha? 38:02 So, nevela. The bird will become the animal will become a nevela. 38:06 Right? This We're talking about We're talking about birds over here, but the same halacha ultimately again would apply would apply by an animal as well. 38:12 So, we'll say so again, if the neck bone breaks and the majority around it and of flesh is cut around it as well, halacha l'maaseh, the animal is a nevela. 38:20 Again, we'll say it's important we qualify our terms. 38:23 The avelah often we use the avelah and treifah interchangeably, but remember halachically they are worlds apart. 38:30 A treifah is just an animal that can't be consumed, right? 38:33 That's it. Not kosher. 38:34 An avelah is also an animal that can't be consumed, but also what? 38:37 Also what? Conveys tumah. 38:39 And obviously again the conveyance of tumah is going to be incredibly important. 38:42 If you look at Rashi in just a moment, Rashi says over here Rashi says it's in the wide lines, four lines in varov basar. 38:51 Rashi says, "Sha'alah mafreges me'achorei hatsavar nifska imo." 38:56 So we're talking about a case over here where the neck bone and the flesh around the neck bone was was was cut through. 39:02 So what's the halacha? 39:03 An avelah. "Umetamei miyad af afi shemifarkeses demisa mamashi ushchita d'lo achamei kan lo metara l'meidei n'veilah." 39:11 Once the neck bone is broken and the majority of the flesh around the neck bone is cut as well, the animal is an avelah. 39:16 Now, Rashi points out something very interesting. 39:18 When is it an avelah as of the avelah as of? 39:21 Even when the animal is um what's the word? 39:24 Not um con- convuls- convulsing? 39:27 Is that the technical convulsing? 39:29 Bar If you ask Rashi this yesterday, he would say which is something very interesting, which is halacha l'maaseh, the definition of death by shchita is what was the lashon? 39:37 What was it? The in- in- in- inevitability? 39:41 inevitability of death. Right? 39:43 So in other words, once the neck bone is broken, right? 39:46 And the majority of flesh, the inevitability of death is there. 39:49 The fact that the animal is still convulsing, right? 39:52 So halacha l'maaseh, we're going to see about whether or not you could eat a convulsing animal or not. 39:57 So just wait. Don't don't don't do it until we get to the sugia, right? 40:00 But but again, so we'll we'll we'll talk about that. 40:03 But l'maaseh again, what once there is an inevitability of death, so halacha l'maaseh the animal is considered to be dead. 40:09 That's what Rashi's point is. 40:10 Like I just want to point out that's what Rashi is pointing out over here. 40:12 Rashi is making a very nuanced point. 40:14 Rashi says once the neck bone is broken, right? 40:17 And the majority of the flesh by the neck is cut, the animal is in an avayla, which is something interesting." 40:23 So, even though the animal is convulsing, it'll still convey tuma. 40:27 You would not have thought that. 40:28 I would have thought the conveyance of tuma is only once the animal has been stilled, right? 40:32 It's no longer convulsing. 40:32 Al kol is so, once there is the inevitability of death through this particular injury, halacha says it's an avayla and conveys tuma immediately. 40:42 And Rashi goes on, "Even if you do a shrita thereafter, you would have thought, 'Okay, let me at least do a shrita. 40:48 I know that it's not going to render it fit for consumption, but at least what? 40:51 At least what? It'll take away the tuma status.' 40:54 It does not. It does not. 40:56 Once that neck bone is broken and the majority of flesh by the neck bone is cut, that animal is in an avayla, even if it's convulsing, and nothing you could do could remedy that status." 41:04 Amora chista, "Af anan ami tenan, we learn this as well." 41:07 Moloch besakin, If you did malika with a knife, this is actually very interesting. 41:12 Metami begado mabes avya. 41:14 So, what we're saying is, if you did malika with a knife, now again, what we're saying is, you took a carbon, right? 41:18 You did malika with a knife. 41:19 What is the impact of doing malika with a knife? 41:22 What is that? What is that? 41:23 That's an invalid malika. 41:25 That's nothing. So, what we're saying is, what if you'd done essentially, now remember what you've done therefore is, you've cut the back of the neck, right? 41:32 The neck bone, the vertebrae, you've cut everything now with the knife. 41:35 Which means what have you done? 41:36 You've made that bird into an avayla. 41:38 So, therefore, you know what we're saying now, interestingly enough, bird tuma is conveyed a little bit differently. 41:43 Bird tuma is conveyed when you swallow it. 41:45 Right? So, once it's in your throat, then it then it ultimately again conveys tuma. 41:49 So, again, not worrying so much about when the tuma is conveyed. 41:52 The point over here is, if you break the back of the neck, right? 41:55 You break the back of the of that bird, which is what you're doing when you go and do malika with a knife. 42:00 Now again, you're doing that when you do it with your thumbnail also. 42:03 Just the difference is, that's the nitzav malika. 42:05 When you're doing it with a knife, that's not the nitzav malika. 42:07 So, because you've done because you've done something that's not malika, you've made the animal into an availa. 42:12 V amrit treifa have ya. 42:15 Right? So, ultimately again, if you say that the animal in general becomes a treifa through this, so the gemara says V amrit treifa have ya. 42:22 Malika says zui shchita sa. 42:24 The honey la saken la taram in an availa. 42:27 And again the boss says, if you just say that this makes the animal into a treifa, then okay, I understand that at least what should happen over here is ultimately again the malika is generally the shchita, and at least the 42:37 knife should allow it not to become an availa. 42:39 It's not malika. The boss is making this distinction. 42:42 If you think that the breaking of of the neck in general just makes the animal into a treifa, not an availa, then halacha l'maaseh the same way that malika would Right, malika is normally the shchita, and malika will prevent it 42:56 ultimately again from becoming an availa. 42:58 So, so too again using the knife on the back of the neck and finishing it up should at least allow it not to be an availa. 43:05 Okay? Amri chasam mishum d'lav shchita he klal. 43:09 No, it's different. When you use a knife on the back of the neck of a bird, I will say, "What are you doing?" 43:14 What What is that? 43:14 What is that? That's nothing. 43:17 That's nothing. It's not malika cuz malika is done with your thumbnail, and it's not shchita. 43:22 Why is it not shchita? 43:23 Why is it shchita? 43:24 Shchita is done from the front of the neck. 43:25 So again, he says, "Amri chasam mishum d'lav shchita he klal. 43:28 My ta'ama?" What What's the reason? 43:30 Rav Huna Rav Nachman b'shem Rav Shmuel cuz I will say, "Remember again, at the end of the day at the end of the day, even if it wasn't shchita, it's a pasul shchita. 43:39 It's chalada. So, therefore again, there's there's no shchita at all over here that is happening. 43:44 Rava Amar Rava says b'shem Rav Shmuel Dores. 43:46 There's an issue of drisa because you'll be pressing the knife in. 43:49 So, the gemara says "Madra Amar Rav Nachman b'shem Rav Shmuel Dores." 43:52 So, why is it the the opinion that said that it's chalada? 43:56 Why did he not agree that it's drisa? 43:58 K'savra molikhu may be kasher by malika kasher cuz he holds that halacha l'maaseh doesn't have to be drisa. 44:03 Because again, halacha l'maaseh molikhu may be as you saw before, going back and forth could be kosher by Malika. 44:08 Woman domination Doris my time with Omar relation Malika and the one who says that it's a problem of drasa. 44:13 Why did he not bring up that it's an issue ultimately again a Malika? 44:17 I'm going to call the hidden what's the case of Halacha? 44:20 That was a Halacha literally means borrowing. 44:23 So remember again as opposed to typical shrita which ultimately is cutting. 44:27 Halacha means if you were to imagine if you were to kind of insert the knife, borrow the knife in between the simanim and cut like that. 44:34 So when does that happen? 44:36 Kihal Kihal like a weasel. 44:38 Halacha comes from the notion of Kihal like a weasel. 44:40 What does a weasel do? 44:42 So the says Kihal Hadara Kihal the Mahasio. 44:46 What does a weasel do? 44:47 So apparently a weasel borrows, right? 44:49 It borrows itself like into the foundation of the house. 44:53 Haka Migla which means Halacha is the soul when you can't see the knife. 44:58 In this case over here Halacha my soul you are going ahead and actually seeing the knife itself. 45:04 Okay, what say? So we're going to stop over here for today, but bottom line bottom line so we're leaving off a little bit a little bit in this middle of this Sugya which is Halacha Ziri statement, right? 45:14 So Ziri made a statement. 45:15 The statement was Nishpara Mafrakas Farov Basar Ima Navela. 45:21 If you go ahead and you you break the neck bone and the majority of the flesh around it the bird ultimately again is an Navela. 45:30 The marriage is now what interestingly enough what we're just going to try to understand in this case is doesn't that automatically mean that every single Malika creates an Navela, right? 45:42 Because what he's describing over here is Malika. 45:46 You're cracking the neck bone along with the majority of flesh around it. 45:49 Does that not create an Navela? 45:51 Now obviously the simple answer is that he said do as it does not create an Navela, but how do we reconcile these Halachas for Shrita and Malika? 45:58 We're going to say Shkoyach. 46:05 A lot of That's a problem we have with the problem that it's really like breaking the floor.
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