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0:00 Zion of base 57B, and we are picking up with Tanoihi, which is five lines up from the bottom. 0:07 So, what we remember again, which is actually quite interesting, all this time we were speaking about treifa, but yet the one thing we didn't have was an active working definition. 0:17 Now the Gemara gives us begins to give us a definition tonight. 0:20 So, the Gemara says the true definition of a treifa is subject to our machlokes Tanoim. 0:25 This Sanyo Ubago Golas. 0:27 So, what say is actually talking about a different kind of discussion. 0:31 Ubago Golas achi yesh bo nekev echad aroch. 0:35 Afilu nekavim harbei nisraf al mal mikdach. 0:39 So, what say so if you can actually just a moment. 0:41 Nisraf al mal So, literally again, little translation of the statement is that with a skull ultimately again, the skull transmits tumah up until the point that it has a hole. 0:50 Even if the hole is long and narrow, and even if there are multiple smaller holes, so ultimately again, the hole this the skull is deemed deficient at the moment that the holes themselves combine to form the shiv amali mikdach, the 1:07 size of like a drill, size of a drill opening. 1:10 Look at Rashi. Now, this is talking about something different. 1:13 Nisraf al mal mikdach beshuv in metamei ba'ohel. 1:16 What say so with that this is not tumas ohel now. 1:18 If the skull has a large enough hole, it does not transmit tumas ohel. 1:25 There was an episode that occurred in the achash niftacha gilgulus. 1:30 With a person ultimately again, who had an opening in his skull. 1:34 And what happens? Va'asu lo chiduk shel keriya. 1:37 And what say interestingly enough, they fashioned him some type of patched it. 1:42 And what? And what? 1:44 He lived. So, again, clearly again, that's not a treifa. 1:48 To which the Gemara says ultimately again, you're going to bring a raya from there? 1:51 That's not a raya. 1:52 Am shalom shalom raya. 1:54 Yemos achama haya. That happened during the summer time when it was warm. 1:58 The Raven shall I love you most at Cena me at maze. 2:02 I will say there's a there's a follow up to that story. 2:04 What's the follow up to the story? 2:06 He lived during the summer and as soon as winter time came what happened? 2:10 He died. So I was saying even in a situation of treif up we discussed this yesterday you can have kind of like minor fixes. 2:17 You can put a band-aid literally or figuratively on it but it is not going to cure the treif a situation. 2:23 I'm a Jacob The fish is not kosher. 2:28 I don't know what it says in reality. 2:30 What even an animal which is a treif up has the ability to give birth and to even quote unquote improve. 2:37 In other words that a treif can show signs of improvement and can even go ahead and give birth but yet still be a treif. 2:47 I'm a mayor some mayor said as follows honey bear was another interesting case. 2:52 If a treif animal lays eggs treif animal lays eggs so what's the top of noon has Sheila comma a Sierra the first batch of eggs are a sir and actually says as follows Sheila comma the last push to also in 3:07 the mayor session in treif up cooler roses do by Eric email who the email in treif up what's that you are interesting. 3:15 So the first batch of eggs is defining as the batch of eggs that were inside of the mother at the time she became a treif. 3:22 So we pass some pass Uber email that the child in utero is considered to be an extension ultimately of the mother and therefore when the mother becomes a treif up the eggs inside of her become a treif as well. 3:37 That's just the first batch and kind of right from that point forward any eggs after the first batch have a going ultimately will be a going means the mother produces it but the male also produces it. 3:53 So, therefore again, the eggs are not considered to be the exclusive offspring of a treif, but instead are a combination of a treif and the kosher animal, and therefore will be permitted. 4:02 Fine. So, what's he So, that's the position of our Maimon, that if you have eggs of a treif, eggs that were in the mother at the time she became a treif, will be assur. 4:13 They have the status of treif. 4:15 Subsequent eggs, subsequent eggs, ultimately again will be mulder. 4:20 Why? Zev is a goren. 4:22 Because they are the offspring of both the mother and the father. 4:25 There are two contributions here, and therefore the eggs will be permitted. 4:29 A say the Maimon is the kasha. 4:31 I say the Rav Ashi la Maimon. 4:33 So, Rav Ashi raised the kasha to a Maimon. 4:35 What did he say? 4:35 The shoven the baitzah treif shasur Rav Neish God love issur. 4:41 So, what's he They agree that the eggs that are laid ultimately again right by a treif are assur. 4:48 Why? Because the egg Because the egg grew in issur. 4:56 Now, what's he Now, what does that sound like? 4:58 What that sounds like is what? 5:00 All of the eggs are a treif. 5:02 Right? I'm sorry. All of the eggs of a treif aren't good. 5:05 The first batch, the second batch, the 27th batch, they're all not good. 5:10 So, that's a contradiction. 5:11 To which the Maimon says, "No, it's not. 5:12 It's chosam be the safna me ara." 5:15 And what's he That's where literally be the safna me ara means it warmed itself from the earth, which means that the chicken is giving birth to eggs without a male. 5:25 Remember again, a chicken can give birth to, all right, unfertilized eggs. 5:29 So, what's he So, ultimately again, the Maimon says, "So, here's the logic." 5:32 You see, our Maimon's logic about say is as follows. 5:35 Eggs that are in the chicken at the time of the treif incident are considered to be a treif cuz they're an extension of the mother. 5:42 Subsequent And remember again, they're already inside of the mother. 5:45 Subsequent eggs, which are the result of male and a female, is what's called zev ze gorin. 5:50 There are two different contributing factors here. 5:55 So, because of that, the eggs will be mutar. 5:57 If the chicken, however, lays eggs without the presence of a male, then what? 6:02 Then what do we say? 6:03 Then the eggs are just the direct result of the mother, the treif mother, and therefore the eggs will have the status of treif. 6:11 Good. So, the Gemara says the Mishnah says that the chicken laid eggs So, I don't understand why are you giving this distinction? 6:17 Why don't you instead say that the Mishnah is talking about the first batch of eggs, where does everyone agree that the eggs will be assur? 6:23 That's the first batch of eggs that were laid that that were that were the eggs that were inside of the mother at the time of the treif incident. 6:31 To which the Gemara says in case God law God made by the If that's the case, I will say then the Mishnah should not have read the shoving the base of treif assur and they should God law. 6:42 It should have said they should God law. 6:44 Because it was finished. 6:45 Rather, again, it's clear that it's talking about two different types of eggs. 6:48 This Mishnah that seems to indicate that the eggs of a treif are always assur is talking about where it laid the eggs without a male. 6:55 Ever hot is none blood treif. 6:58 We will say but that's what we learned in the Mishnah. 7:00 Blood treif, the offspring of a treif. 7:03 Rabbi Eliezer says You cannot offer up such an animal on the Mishnah. 7:07 You cannot offer up such an animal on the Mishnah. 7:10 Rabbi Yoshua says You can offer You can offer it up on the Mishnah. 7:14 So, what are they arguing about? 7:17 The Mishnah says the treif or the assur treif. 7:19 What they are arguing about is the following case, where the mother became a treif or and then afterwards became pregnant. 7:26 Rabbi Eliezer says zev ze gorin. 7:28 He says in that case, it's zev ze gorin. 7:32 You have the mother who's a treif or We are assuming over here that the father is totally healthy. 7:37 So, zev ze gorin, you have two contributing factors. 7:40 Rabbi Eliezer says zev ze gorin is assur." 7:43 Rabbi Yehoshua says, "Zev zegorim mutar." 7:47 Rabbi Yehoshua says that no, when you have two The only time that the offspring of a treifa will be assur is when it's only a result of the treifa. 7:55 But if there is another non-treifa influence in there, ultimately again it will be mutar. 8:00 E haqi if that's the case, ad the mifligu le gavoha lifligu le hedyot. 8:06 If that's the case, then why are you having a machlokes regarding offering up a mizbeach? 8:11 No need to have that machlokes. 8:12 You should frame the machlokes in terms of what is permitted for normative regular consumption. 8:18 To which the Gemara says, "I'll tell you why." 8:20 Lo diacha kocho d'Rabbi Yehoshua. 8:23 To teach you the strength of the position of Rabbi Yehoshua. 8:25 Da filu le gavoha nami shari cuz what does Rabbi Yehoshua hold that zev zegorim is mutar to the point that what? 8:31 That such an animal can even be offered up as a korban. 8:34 V'lifligu le hedyot lo diacha kocho d'Rabbi Eliezer. 8:39 I, but why not go ahead and argue in a case of hedyot? 8:42 Right, regular consumption. To teach you the strength of the position of Rabbi Eliezer. 8:46 Da amar da filu le hedyot nami assur. 8:50 Cuz he holds that even a boss for normative consumption, ultimately again this animal will be assur. 8:55 Koach d'teira adif lei. 8:57 Cuz it will say the ability to permit something is always considered to be a stronger stronger display of halachic muscle than the ability to go ahead and prohibit it. 9:08 U'modim b'beitzas treifa shasura. 9:11 And it will say when we said before that they agree with the egg of a treifa that it's going to be assur. 9:15 What is that talking about? 9:17 That's b'di safna me'ara. 9:20 That's ultimately talking about a situation where what? 9:22 Where halacha l'maaseh It will say safna me'ara literally means it becomes warmed from the ground, which is where it lays eggs without a male. 9:32 So with the safna me'at gorimu. 9:34 Cuz it will say in that case, there's only one positive factor, i.e. 9:38 the treif mother, and therefore halacha l'maaseh, the eggs will be assur. 9:42 So, we'll say, what we're holding right now is in Shitas Ameimar that says as follows. 9:48 And if when if the when the mother becomes a treifa, any eggs inside of the mother at that time, what's their status? 9:55 Assur, right? Ubar yerech imo, right? 9:58 Whatever is Whatever is inside of the mother, right at the time as the status of the mother, those are treifa. 10:02 We'll say, Ameimar then says that what? 10:05 Then halacha l'maaseh, but subsequent eggs that she lays, what's the halacha? 10:10 They're mutar. What's the logic? 10:12 Zeh v'zeh goren. But that is only true if she's laying the eggs with a male. 10:18 If at the end of the day she's laying eggs on her own, then those eggs have the same status as first batch eggs, and therefore will be treifa eggs and will be assur. 10:27 Good. So, for that's where we are. 10:29 Rav Nachman Sura d'Rav Nachman Sorry, Rav Nachman Sura d'Rav Nachman bar Yaakov um mastanei l'Rav Nachman bar Yaakov k'dei amram. 10:38 So, we'll say, Rav Nachman holds like Rav Nachman bar Ameimar, and he states the ruling in accordance with Ameimar as we have just said before. 10:48 Ravina lo safar l'Rav Nachman bar Yaakov. 10:52 On the other hand, Ravina bosei did not hold like Rav Nachman bar Yaakov. 10:58 Um I'm sorry, I just lost the place. 11:01 Like Rav Nachman bar Yaakov. 11:02 U mastanei l'Rav Nachman bar Yaakov b'chiddushna. 11:05 And his interpretation of Ameimar was as follows. 11:09 Amar Ameimar, Ameimar So, so this is now an alternate version of Ameimar. 11:13 Amar Ameimar, "Hani bei d'safek treifa." 11:17 We'll say, now listen to this case. 11:18 In this version it's a little bit different. 11:20 What is Ameimar talking about? 11:22 Not a case of a vadai treifa, but rather a case of a safek treifa. 11:28 A safek treifa. So, "Hani bei d'safek treifa." 11:32 There were these eggs ultimately again of a Suffolk treif animal. 11:40 Ultimately again that's what so I say when the when that when that when that chicken lays its first batch of eggs. 11:47 Remember again this is a Suffolk treif. 11:49 The chicken lays its first batch of eggs. 11:52 E had rather than if it lays a second batch of eggs Shalion then ultimately again not only are the second batch but the first batch is mutar as well. 12:04 V low but if it does not lay a second batch of eggs then what? 12:08 Asiron ultimately again everything will be assur. 12:11 They will say now what's the logic of that? 12:14 The logic of that is as follows in this version of Ameimar if the animal is really a treif it will not be able to give birth to a second batch of eggs. 12:22 If it goes ahead and gives birth to the second batch of eggs that clearly indicates that what? 12:28 It's not a treif. 12:29 If it's not a treif then what? 12:31 Then the first batch is going to be mutar as well. 12:35 A say Rashi to Ameimar so we'll say Rashi raised a kasha to Ameimar umol dim bebetzas treif shasura mipnei she godla be assur everyone agrees with the egg of a treif that it's assur. 12:48 Why? Because it grew up in a state of assur. 12:51 So the Gemara says Hasam what is that case talking about? 12:54 I mean they Hasam be the shich la kama that's talking about the first batch of eggs right? 12:59 Not the subsequent batch of eggs. 13:01 In gain if that's the case godla why does it say godla right? 13:06 Growing gam rami bar it should be talking about what? 13:09 Should be saying about say the first batch of eggs which is finished inside of the mother. 13:13 So which the Gemara says you're right tiny gamra change the verbiage here to read not godla but gamra. 13:19 Al lo hadisnan but that which we learned flood treif the offspring of a treif Rabbi Eliezer omer in lo yikra of the carbon misbe'ach, you should not offer it up on the misbe'ach. 13:31 Rebbi Yeshua Well, let's remember again, this is now the same conversation we just had before, but just in a different version of a nemar. 13:37 Our the first version of a nemar has a nemar talking about a chicken that is a vadai treifa. 13:43 Second version of a nemar has a nemar talking about a situation where what? 13:47 It's a safek treifa. 13:48 So, let's just say now we never heard this number, but that's what we learned. 13:51 Vlad treifa, the offspring of a treifa. 13:53 Rebbi Eliezer Omer Well, in the curve of the carbon misbe'ach. 13:56 Rebbi Eliezer says you can't offer up the offspring of a treifa as a carbon. 14:02 Rebbi Yeshua Omer ekar. 14:03 Rebbi Yeshua says yes, you can. 14:05 Demai kam ifligei? And what are they arguing about? 14:08 Kish ebra ulu basof nitrafa. 14:12 And what they're saying what they're arguing about is where the animal became pregnant and then ultimately became a treifa. 14:19 Rebbi Eliezer sover, yubal yarech immo. 14:23 So, what they're saying Rebbi Eliezer says that ultimately So, again, it's pregnant first and then treifa afterwards. 14:28 Rebbi Eliezer says that the offspring is considered to be an extension of the mother. 14:32 And therefore again, just as the mother is a treifa, so too again the offspring will be a treifa. 14:36 Rebbi Yeshua sover, ubal lav yarech immohu. 14:40 Rebbi Yeshua Rebbi Yeshua holds that no, the ubal is its own distinct entity, not an extension of the mother. 14:47 To which the Gemara says if that's the case, yachi, ad demifligei legavah, lifligei lehedyot. 14:54 If that's the case, then instead of going ahead and arguing in a case of hekdesh, why not argue in a case of hedyot? 15:02 And as we'll say, who cares about the misbe'ach right now? 15:04 There's a more practical application over here, which is what? 15:07 Consumption. Consumption. To which the Gemara says lehol de'acha koho de Rebbi Yeshua. 15:13 We'll say ultimately again to highlight the koho of Rebbi Yeshua. 15:17 Lifligei behedyot lehol de'acha koho de Rebbi Eliezer. 15:20 I So, why not argue in a case ultimately again of hedgehogs in order to go ahead and highlight the position of Eliezer to which the Gamara once again says "Koach detera adiflay." 15:32 I will say again we we lend more credence to those who permit rather than to those who prohibit. 15:44 I will say everyone agrees that what? 15:47 That certainly again with the eggs of an animal that is a vada treifa that certainly the first batch of eggs will be assur. 15:55 My timer, what's the reason for this? 15:58 Goofahi cuz I will say again that first batch of eggs that comes from a chicken which is a treifa are directly considered to be an extension of that treifa mother and therefore are treifus. 16:10 Vilchasa and I will say here is the halacha. 16:16 So I will say the halacha is that with the zachar right with the zachar 12 months. 16:22 What does that mean? 16:22 Look at Rashi. Vilchasa bizachar safek treifa deday. 16:27 I will say with a male animal if you have a case of safek treifa you're not sure if the male animal is a treifa or not. 16:41 So I will say if the animal so if you have an animal that's a safek treifa say if it's a zachar if it's a male animal if it lives 12 months that's an indication that what? 16:51 It is not a treifa. 16:52 It is not a treifa. 16:53 It's totally kosher. Vishuv einsarklebotsko kegonim safek drusa on a fulah osham nikayva krum mach masher and shaksas. 17:04 So I will say so the male animal if you have a safek treifa situation the way you prove vitality is longevity. 17:11 Vitality through longevity. Longevity as defined by 12 months. 17:16 An animal that lives 12 months you're good to go. 17:18 What in a yolada. 17:19 So what's that by Nikiva? 17:20 If the mother doesn't give birth, if the mother doesn't give birth, then halacha l'maaseh that's a sign that the animal is a treifa. 17:29 So the Gemara says now we're saying that obviously I want to point out not giving birth by itself is not a sign treifa. 17:36 This is talking about where you know something happened to the animal, right? 17:40 Something happened to the animal and I'm not sure is it a treifa or not. 17:43 If the if the event, the potential treifa event occurred and the animal also does not give birth, that's indicative that the animal is a treifa. 17:52 And the verse says the Shulchan Aruch paskens ultimately like the first version of a ma'amar namely when the animal becomes a treifa and and a vadai treifa we're talking about over here. 18:02 Any eggs that come out after So if the animal became a treifa and was pregnant, right? 18:07 With the eggs, those first that first batch of eggs ultimately again are treifus. 18:11 Subsequent batches of eggs, their status will depend on what? 18:15 If there was a zachar or not. 18:18 If there was a zachar, they'll be permitted because zev is a gorem, but ultimately again if they are if there's no male there, but ultimately the chicken is just laying unfertilized eggs, then those are considered to be an extension of 18:31 the mother will be treifus as well. 18:32 Beautiful. Says the Gemara Rav Nachman Kol berya she'ein ba etzem einam miskaymin yoter mi shneim chodesh. 18:39 So what's that? Comes along Rav Nachman and gives us a very interesting fact. 18:44 Any Any living organism which does not have bones, right? 18:49 Which does not have bones, does not live does not live for more than 12 months. 18:54 I don't know what the biological term for this is. 18:57 Is it exoskeleton? Exoskeleton? 19:00 All right, doesn't have bones, right? 19:01 Any Any organ that does not have bones ultimately again does not live for more than 12 months. 19:07 I want to say now I understand this is not a treifa issue, this is just a a fact issue. 19:13 This is what Hazal are telling us, right? 19:15 That without without the bones it doesn't live for more than 12 months. 19:18 So, the Gemara says, "Amar Amar Rav Papa, Shmuel and Rav Huna." 19:24 So, what does Rav Papa say? 19:25 He says, "In addition to just being a very interesting fact to have under your belt, this actually has other halachic ramifications." 19:32 How so? Had Amar Shmuel, "Kishus shetlia b'e b'e b'e ba." 19:37 So, what does it say? 19:38 Listen to this. If you have cucumbers which became which became wormy, b'e ba means while they are still attached to the ground, asura. 19:49 Those cucumbers, right? Or melons, will ultimately again become asur. 19:53 Now, what does that mean? 19:54 What's the logic here? 19:55 Look at that. She has asura. 19:56 Hatola'as b'akhila d'khivan d'mahalekhes b'sokh kishus. 20:01 V'akishus m'khubaros b'karka. Sheretz sheretz al ha'aretz karina bei. 20:07 So, this is actually a very interesting halacha. 20:09 So, a worm of course is a sheretz, but it's only problematic if at some point in time it crawled on the earth. 20:15 If it did not crawl on the earth, even if it's even if it's infesting the food item, it's not a sheretz if it was never on the earth. 20:24 So, what say? So, therefore the Gemara says as follows. 20:27 If you have these kishus, these melons or these cucumbers, right? 20:30 Which ultimately are attached to the ground and you find worms in them, so because they are attached to the ground, they're considered as if they're in the ground. 20:38 And because of that, the worms that are inside of them have the status of sheretz. 20:42 That's the asura. Okay. 20:44 Amar Deis, Hani tamri d'kada. 20:46 Listen to this. Similarly, if you have dates in a basket, l'vasar treisar yarkhi shasha sharyon. 20:55 I will say, those dates, even if they have worms inside of them, after 12 months will be permitted. 21:01 I will say, "What's the logic? 21:03 What's the logic?" Cuz what did we just say? 21:05 Anything that does not have bones does not live for more than 12 months, which means what they will say. 21:12 Then if after if you put the dates in the basket and they're there 12 months later, if there are worms in there, then what it what's clear? 21:21 What's clear? Those worms didn't come from the ground. 21:24 Those worms developed in after the dates were already in the basket. 21:29 If they developed once those were already in the basket, they will say that on a technical level, Mar is not suggesting you eat it, but on a technical level, those are not called shratzim and therefore can technically be consumed. 21:42 Amarav, Rav said, this is actually very interesting. 21:45 Less baka bar yoma. 21:47 There's no such thing as a gnat that is more than a day old. 21:51 In other words, that the lifespan of a gnat is a day. 21:54 The less didva bas shasa. 21:57 And there is no such thing as a fly that is more than a year old. 22:01 So apparently again, flies don't live for more than a year, right? 22:05 Gnats do not live for more than a day. 22:15 So we'll say, they're actually quite interesting. 22:17 But yet people say an interesting expression that for seven years the gnat refused her mate. 22:24 Right? For seven years Mrs. 22:26 Gnat, right? Would not have relations with Mr. 22:29 Gnat. Why not? The Amar lay cuz she got breigus with him. 22:33 Why did she get breigus with him? 22:35 The Amar lay khazise the bar makhusa the sakha be maya. 22:40 Was this actually incredible? 22:41 Why did she get breigus with him? 22:42 Because she said to him, "Do you remember that time, right? 22:45 When we were flying around by the beach, and what happens? 22:48 You saw that fat makhusan, right? 22:52 Who was coming out of the water. 22:53 He was toweling off. 22:55 The salik the ikhrik be sadinin. 22:58 Like literally he was wrapping himself in the towels. 23:00 The sevis ale umatsas mena. 23:03 And you went and you manage you know suck the blood out of him for the whole day and you never told me about this. 23:11 You never told me about this. 23:13 So she's breaking his head the godless of this story is this happened 7 years ago and manage is like today. 23:21 You see you see that there are certain parallels between the human kingdom right the animal kingdom it's an incredible incredible thing. 23:27 So I'll say so the point of this is over here is here's the succession about the net obviously the in all seriousness by the way the what's the point of this see we're using it to show you're telling me a 23:40 net doesn't live for a day right it doesn't live more than a day here it appears that nets live for longer in all seriousness by the way in all seriousness you know these type of metaphors and parables absolutely do have 23:54 lessons and in all kidding aside I will say there is this you so that sometimes the greatest handicap in relationships is where you just hold on to things and obsess over them over and over and over and over and having 24:09 inability to move forward in a relationship that that's actually that's actually the message that are going ahead and bringing out from this little cute story at some point in time you have to let go or move on otherwise you simply 24:26 destroy all of your relationships from within but for purposes of our it appears that the net lives for longer than a day to which the says I'm going to let you know that according to that same reasoning there's another expression 24:41 how do I she send money tell me corner say we'll say that the net can carry literally 60 mana of steel on its literally means it's beak it means it's stinger right me so we'll say so could it be that 25:01 the net which is tiny could go ahead and carry all of this steel on its stinger? 25:07 So of course that's not true. 25:08 Ella but money did oh how can I mean the show me did oh rather I will say obviously has our talking about that the net could carry this weight relative to the net. 25:19 So the 60 money doesn't doesn't 60 money doesn't mean money like we know it but it's not money. 25:24 Right? So to over here when we speak about 7 years it's not years. 25:29 Right? Not years not time. 25:31 Okay. Can I not say the animal balance here at line here at line. 25:36 So this is an interesting case. 25:39 Up until now we've always been speaking about animals which are deficient in some way. 25:44 Now we're going to speak about animals which have extra limbs. 25:48 What happens if an animal has five legs? 25:50 Has five legs. So what's the oh she or only has three legs? 25:56 What's the how is that moon? 25:58 So what is like too many or too few legs ultimately represents a moon. 26:03 I'm not sure what I should say beyond. 26:07 That's only true if the additional or or missing leg is one of the four legs. 26:13 I will say the extra leg but if the additional or the deficient leg ultimately again is the hind leg then what? 26:23 Treifa. Ultimately again the animal is a treifa. 26:27 So the says I'm sorry treifa not me have you. 26:31 It is also treifa. 26:32 My time or what's the reason for that? 26:34 Call yes sir can not do that. 26:36 This is actually incredible idea. 26:38 Anything that is extra is as if it's missing. 26:41 So what's the other words? 26:42 An extra leg or an extra anything is the same thing as if the the limb or the part of the animal is missing. 26:51 So the says I hear you sir. 26:53 The animal has the same Dibbi." 26:55 So, what say? There was an animal with two cecums. 27:00 Right? We spoke about this. 27:00 It's a Saggy Dibbi. 27:01 The Avelei says the animal I don't know if cecums is the right plural for it, but it's okay. 27:06 Right? They have two two Right? 27:07 This is this part this part of the stomach that has two cecums. 27:10 So, what happens? I Suha the Ravina. 27:12 They brought this animal before Ravina. 27:14 The Tarfa. And Ravina said it was treif. 27:17 Why? Mid Ravhuna. Cuz what does it base on the Ravhuna? 27:20 the Ravhuna? Cuz what did Ravhuna just say? 27:21 Ravhuna said that Halacha L'Maaseh Ravhuna said anything that has something extra ultimately is as if it's deficient. 27:32 So, Ravhuna said, "Therefore, if you have two parts two stomachs, that ultimately is like missing a stomach, which then creates an animal a treifa." 27:40 To which the Gamara says, "Vi Shuf on the Hadadi Shira." 27:43 What does what does it literally mean? 27:44 It says, "If they pour into each other, then the animal will be will be mutar." 27:48 What say? Which ultimately means that if the two stomachs are working in concert with each other, they pour into each other, then ultimately again the animal will not be a treifa. 27:58 "Hahi Gufsa d'Havei Nafqa Mi Be Kasi L'Hov Lila." 28:03 So, what say? So, there was an animal that had this Gufsa. 28:06 What say? Gufsa Rashi says is a Kona Basa, an extra like tube-like amount of flesh. 28:14 So, what are these extra tube-like amount of flesh that extended ultimately again from the reticulum to a different part of the stomach. 28:22 "Savar from the tube to the stomach." 28:24 Savar Ravashi L'Mishafa. Ravashi wanted to declare the animal treif. 28:28 Why Ravashi? Because it has this it had this extra piece of flesh. 28:32 It had this extra piece of flesh in it. 28:34 "Am Ravhuna Mar Bar Chiyya d'Ravashi." 28:37 So, what say? Ravhuna Ravhuna Mar Bar Chiyya d'Ravashi. 28:40 So, the Gamara says, "Kol Hani Chiyyei Bri'asa Havei Istu." 28:44 So, actually he said what say? 28:45 These types of animals all of them, have this extra piece of flesh. 28:49 In other words, this was not a siman treifa, cuz in fact all of these animals possess this similar type of extra piece of flesh. 28:56 How gufsa d'avah avram kasai l'karsa. 29:01 So, we'll say similarly again, there was this animal that had this extra tube of flesh that extended again from the reticulum to the paunch. 29:10 So, what happened? Savar Mar Avashila Sh'ma wants to say the animal is kosher. 29:15 Why? So, the gemara says cuz he wanted to say I guess this is the way this animal is, that this extra piece of flesh I will say is not indicative of a treifa, but rather again perhaps this is just the 29:25 nature of this type of animal. 29:27 Amar lei Rav Hoshia, "Atu kulu b'chada mikhta makhtinu." 29:32 So, he Rav Hoshia said to him, "You can't go ahead and just simply paint all of the animals in a broad stroke." 29:40 In other words, just because you could use that svara, that this is how the animal matures in one case, doesn't mean you could use that in all cases. 29:48 Heicha d'itmar itmar, heicha d'lo itmar lo itmar. 29:52 I will say when Chazal said that the extra tube of flesh is considered to be normative, then you could say it. 29:59 But, where Chazal did not say it, you can't say it. 30:02 He id he he id Nassan bar Shila bar I'm sorry. 30:08 He id Nassan bar Shila Rav Kahana d'Tzipori said of us that Nassan bar Shila, who was the chief butcher in Tzipori, said the following before Rebbe. 30:18 What did he say? 30:20 "Ashnei b'nei me'ayim yotzim min beheima." 30:22 Okay, so listen to this. 30:24 Let's say you have an animal who has two intestines that are coming out of the animal, two intestines. 30:30 She treifa. Ultimately, I will say two intestines is going to make the animal a treifa. 30:35 U'k'negedan b'of k'sheira. Yet again, a similar condition by birds will be totally fine. 30:40 Remember I will say second wide second wide line on the intestine of the olive. 30:44 Imagine we're saying when is that true? 30:46 The two intestines only if the two intestines come out of two parts of the stomach. 30:52 But imagine we're saying but imagine we're saying ultimately again if they come out of the same place, the colon and when they end, they end within a finger's breath of each other, then kosher. 31:05 Ultimately again they'll be kosher. 31:07 Pleague about Rabbi Asi. 31:08 So what's Rabbi Asi arguing about this? 31:11 Who the Hadjiva Arvis? 31:13 We're saying once said that's only true if the two intestines ultimately what? 31:17 Come back and reconnect with one another. 31:20 The Hadjiva Arvis and the other opinion said no, even if they don't reconnect with each other, the animal could still be kosher. 31:27 Bish of the Mandumer who about the Mandumer who the Hadjiva Arvis. 31:31 So according to the opinion says that the two intestines at some point have to reconnect. 31:36 I know the tiny Hadjiva that's ultimately what the Brisas said meant when it said that they come together with in a finger's breath. 31:43 And the Mandumer Hadjiva Arvis might Hadjiva Arvis. 31:47 And we're saying ultimately again but when it says that the intestines do not have to come back and recombine, what does it mean when it says Hadjiva Arvis? 31:53 Hadjiva Arvis we're saying what it means is at the area where the two intestines end off and reconnect to another organ, they have to be at least within a finger's breath of each other in order to go ahead and make 32:05 sure the animal is not a treifa. 32:07 Rabbi Omer Mitla notes of Suna. 32:09 We're saying Rabbi said that if the small feathers Remember again a bird apparently has two feathers. 32:14 One of the exterior one set of feathers are the exterior longer feathers where everyone agrees that even if those feathers are not present, the animal is not a treifa. 32:24 And the second set of feathers are the smaller feathers which are right next to the flesh of the animal that apparently that that the kind of common said that Rabbana said even if they're missing the animal is not a treifa. 32:34 Rabbi You would have no, if the animal is missing those feathers, the animal is a treif. 32:38 Says the Gemara, Omer therefore if the small feathers are removed, the animal is possible a treif. 32:45 I'm going to be open on Rabbi Yehuda, Rabbi Shmuel amru d'var echad. 32:50 Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Shmuel both said the same thing. 32:52 Rabbi Yehuda had the amrus, so what's Rabbi Yehuda? 32:53 This is what we just said in the Mishnah. 32:55 Rabbi Shmuel, what did Rabbi Shmuel say? 32:57 So what's apparently Rabbi Shmuel also agrees that the that the small feathers, rabosai, have the status of the flesh of the animal. 33:06 Which therefore means what? 33:08 Which therefore means that if they are missing, halacha l'maaseh, if they are missing then halacha l'maaseh, the animal is considered to be a treif. 33:18 Rabbi Shmuel, this is not Rabbi Shmuel omer, hanotzah mitztaref es. 33:22 Ultimately, you know what I'm saying? 33:23 That the notzah, those small those small feathers are mitztaref combined with the flesh of the animal. 33:29 Rabosai, now what is this talking about? 33:32 So this is actually talking about a case of pigul. 33:34 What's remember again, going back to the menachos days, so the halacha is if you have in mind to go ahead and let's say eat a k'zayis of a carbon, right? 33:44 For example, outside of the prescribed time, outside of the prescribed area, the halacha is or outside of the prescribed time, the animal could become pigul. 33:53 If that k'zayis is comprised of flesh and small feathers, the small feathers have the ability to combine with the basar to form a k'zayis. 34:05 Which rabosai tells you what? 34:06 That the small feathers have the status ultimately of flesh. 34:11 That's Rabbi Yehuda's shita as well. 34:13 Which is why Rabbi Yehuda holds that halacha l'maaseh, if the small feathers are missing, the animal becomes a treif. 34:19 So the Gemara says, therefore the Gemara is suggesting that Rabbi Yehuda and Rabbi Shmuel hold the same way. 34:23 Omer Rava, not necessarily. 34:24 Dilma lo hi ad kan Rabbi Yehuda halacha el din treif. 34:29 So what's it? Maybe Rabbi Yehuda only holds that the small feathers only impact the animal vis-a-vis its treif or status. 34:34 Why? The lack of meaty demaginalia cuz I will say again when the small feathers are gone, there is nothing to protect the animal's flesh at all. 34:42 And as such again, that's what makes it a treif. 34:45 I will say if you will say regarding pigel, can I honestly say maybe holds that feathers are not like flesh? 34:53 That kind of issue only furthermore holds the issue that by pigel I will say the issue of treif. 35:00 I will say by treif, maybe what maybe he would disagree or maybe he would agree because he would say ultimately again, there's nothing to protect the animal. 35:11 And therefore again I will say if you even those small feathers don't protect the animal against anything and therefore even if they're removed, it makes no difference. 35:20 I will say so bottom line, we sought to align the positions of Rebbe Yehuda and Rebbe Yishmael to which the Gemara says they don't really align with one another. 35:30 Plus it's just you should know the way that I'm asking is that when it comes to any feathers, right? 35:36 Whether again whether again it's big feathers or small feathers, the absence of feathers does not make the animal a treif. 35:45 Good. So the Gemara goes right to the Mishna. 35:47 Says the Mishna, I will say now here's what's interesting. 35:52 Now we're kind of going back for a moment and kind of speaking about other conditions in the animal. 35:57 I will say I will say we'll see what this means, but this is some type of like blood disease. 36:02 Right? If the animal has some type of blood disease and became ill or ushanas. 36:07 So we'll say ushanas means the animal has suffered from smoke inhalation. 36:12 Smoke inhalation. Or hardufni or the animal ate hardufni. 36:18 So we'll say hardufni is some type of something some type of poison for animals. 36:23 Right? Animal poison. Or or it ate the dung of chickens or she some my my room or it drank bad waters, right? 36:34 Rashi points out to remind my my McGovern water left open and unattended over the course of the night or so I'm saying all of these cases I'm I'm sorry not finished yet. 36:46 Did I skip? No. 36:48 She has some share up with ultimately again the animal will not be the animal will not be a treif that's still kosher. 36:54 All close some of us if the animal goes and eats a poisonous but this is human poison. 37:01 And if it is human poison or she she not harsh or it was bitten by a snake mutar mission treif up ultimately again the animal is not a treif up but a sura mission kindness in the flashes. 37:14 What is actually very interesting? 37:15 So apparently ingesting human poison or going and being bitten by a snake does not make the animal a treif. 37:22 So so it's kosher but what? 37:25 I can't eat it. 37:26 Why can't I eat it to both sides? 37:28 Out of a concern that ultimately again the poison human poison will still be present in the flesh of the meat or the snake venom will still be present in the flesh in the flesh of the animal as well. 37:38 So it's not a treif up but I can't eat it. 37:40 What is actually incredible so you can have a case you can have a case ultimately again of meat that is absolutely glot, right? 37:47 It's kosher but you still can't eat it. 37:50 So my advice to my small he'll eat the treif up. 37:54 What is it ultimately again the animal ingest filters ultimately again the animal is a treif up. 38:01 My timer what is it what's the reason? 38:03 So filters by the way we spoke about this before some type of plant item. 38:08 Why does why does why does filters create a problem? 38:10 My timer the mink of the whole cuz what is apparently the filters plant is sharp and because it's sharp by definition it pierces the intestines. 38:20 So because of that it renders the animal a treifa. 38:23 Massive Rav Shisvi, so Rav Shisvi is the kasha. 38:26 A chusas hadam, so we'll say he quotes a braisa. 38:30 And the braisa says the animal has blood disease, milshan smoking inhalation, fisha achla hardufni, or it ate animal poison. 38:39 Um animal poison. Fish achla tzoas negolim, or it ate chicken manure. 38:44 Fish asamaim alav, or it drank maim megulim. 38:47 Hel ita tia chilsis u parpalin, or it ate we'll say these items which we'll discuss. 38:52 Tia is some type is some type of of bitter grass. 38:56 Or we'll say chilsis, right? 38:58 Or parpalin or peppers. 39:00 Achla sam hamoves, or it ate poison. 39:02 Ksheira. Ultimately again, the animal will be kasher. 39:05 So, he kisha nakash o shinashcha kelev shoten muteres mishum tzeiva u mishum sakanas nefashos. 39:11 So, we'll we'll come back to that last part. 39:12 But for our purposes, kashya chilsis achilsis, we'll say it's just a contradiction. 39:17 You just told me before that's what? 39:18 That if the animal eats chilsis, what's the status of the animal? 39:21 It's a treifa. It's a treifa. 39:23 What if this braisa is saying we'll say if the animal eats chilsis, what's the halacha? 39:26 It's totally fine. So, which one is it? 39:29 To which the amora says, kashya sam hamoves achilas sam hamoves, chilsis achilsis lo kashya. 39:35 We'll say ultimately again, the case of chilsis does not pose a problem. 39:38 Why not? Kan b'olin, kan b'kratin. 39:42 We'll say one is talking about leaves, and one is talking about grains. 39:46 The leaves of the chilsis plant are not problematic. 39:50 They're fine. The grains of chilsis we'll say are what are sharp and will perforate in the intestines ultimately again on the way in. 39:59 Sam hamoves achilas sam hamoves lo kashya, we'll say we'll finish with this. 40:02 Similarly again, the cases of poison are also not contradictory. 40:05 Hadi day, had d'adam. 40:08 Ultimately and we'll say that halacha l'maaseh, right? 40:12 The sam hamoves that is problematic for an animal is the sam hamoves for an animal. 40:17 The sam hamoves that is not problematic for an animal is the sama movis ultimately of a human being. 40:22 The base that the Gamara says, the behema einu ardofni, I, but one second, isn't the sama movis for a behema the same thing as ardofni? 40:30 They're both poisonous materials. 40:32 Trei gavnei sama movis, you're right. 40:34 The braisa is just talking about two different types of poison. 40:36 All right, the braisa we'll stop over here. 40:38 We'll pick up bottom of nun ches mem beis amud amud resha sheini.
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