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0:13 All right, so we'll say good morning and good morning and good hold this everyone such a slow to begin the new month together with the Sefer School to begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning sheer to thank 0:25 our Tammuz Torah sponsors. 0:28 Still in the month of Tammuz sorry for the month of Sivan. 0:31 One last day Avraham and Shaindy come with a very deep sorrow dedicating all the Shiurim and Hashkafas this month in memory of Rafael Yechiel ben Avraham is a great memory of that for me. 0:40 Sponsors for today Iyan and Sarah Steinberg and also for continued health of ben Chana bas Shoshana and for an ultimate refuah shleimah for Shmuel ben Chaim ben Avraham as a zechus for a refuah shleimah of Avraham Shmuel's father Chaim Mordechai 0:54 ben Chava bas Shoshana and all of Yisrael. 0:56 And Mel and Karen Ram of Toronto the ilui nishmas Mel's grandmother Feiga Reiza bas Mosha Ber whose 62nd yahrtzeit is today. 1:06 She had an exceptionally hard life raising a Jewish family in Gothenburg. 1:11 She lost two husbands, worked two jobs to pay her rent and passed away at a relatively young age leaving Mel's mother without parents at only 21 years old. 1:20 But baruch Hashem the mesiras nefesh that she had clearly paved the way for the beautiful family that she has. 1:25 Her neshama should have an aliyah. 1:27 All the neshamos should have an aliyah. 1:28 All those in your pushka should together be healthy. 1:30 Be so sha- shaar cholei Yisrael and Hashem should look after our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael and all the holy soldiers should be successful bechol maasei yedeihem. 1:38 With with that let us begin today's daf in mem bof 46. 1:42 We are picking up on mem hey amud beis 45b and we left off we left off uh uh at heichan chud hashegira which is which is two four six lines up from the bottom. 1:57 Very interesting. So again, so as I remember again in yesterday's that we were speaking about essentially at what point in time does the spinal cord begin? 2:05 So remember again, the Gamara spoke about the idea of the occipital lobes, the pooling that the Gamara called them, that's the kind of point of demarcation. 2:12 Anything inside of the cranium is considered to be the brain, anything outside is considered to be the spinal cord. 2:18 So the Gamara says, "Okay, that's on the front end or we'll call it the top end. 2:21 What about halacha l'maaseh on the towards the back? 2:25 How far down on the animal does the spinal cord extend?" 2:29 So the Gamara says as follows, "Ad bein haprasos." 2:34 Although now literally translated as he said in the Shmuel, "Until the branches." 2:38 Now again, I will say, if you look yesterday and yesterday I put on the chat a number of different images. 2:43 Today actually the images are really just from the art scroll itself. 2:47 If you notice the way the spinal cord of an animal is set up is the way it works is it branches down and as it branches down, it continuously branches off into smaller branches as it gets to the lower part 2:59 of the animal. So the Gamara said, "This is what's called ad bein haprasos." 3:03 So you can see over here, this picture in the WhatsApp chat, this is a this is just a picture of branches. 3:08 So this represents the bottom of the spinal Again, it's in the chat. 3:12 I put it in the chat. 3:13 So this is this is in the bottom of the spinal cord. 3:16 As you get towards let's say the we'll talk like the rear of the animal, the spinal cord itself begins to go ahead and branch off. 3:23 And you can see over here essentially there's three different junctures. 3:27 There's what the Gamara calls pi haprasos. 3:29 We're going to see all of this in just a moment. 3:31 There's the pi haprasos which is the beginning of the part where it splits off. 3:34 There's junction one, which is parsha aleph, junction two, parsha bet, junction three, parsha gimmel. 3:41 Okay, not very imaginative names, but descriptive and and helpful, right? 3:45 So we'll say so these are the different junctures. 3:47 So the Gamara says as follows. 3:49 So the Gamara says, "Up until what point in time is it considered to be a problem? 3:53 Remember again, this is not just like a matter of biology. 3:56 Why do we need to know up until which point in time up until which point is the spinal cord? 4:00 Because remember again, different parts of the body are governed by different treifot. 4:06 So I need to know where the spinal cord begins, where the spinal cord ends. 4:09 This is not just a matter of semantics, these are very important details. 4:12 So listen to this. 4:14 Rebbe bar Yitzchak have a couple of mazel tov. 4:17 So he went So Rebbe bar Yitzchak was traveling to Behozei. 4:22 Also Rebbe Yehuda, he came with Rebbe Yehuda on the way. 4:25 Look silly man, been approached to say hello. 4:28 Rebbe, can you show me where is Behozei on the animal? 4:33 Where where where what does it mean between the junctures? 4:35 What where exactly is this area? 4:38 Zil I see Rebbe Akiva. 4:40 Bring me a goat, right? 4:41 Bring me a kid and I'll go and I'll show it to you a shochet. 4:44 We'll open it up and I'll show it to you. 4:46 So I see Rebbe Shimon. 4:48 So he brought him a very very Rebbe Yehuda a very a very a bunch of a fat goat, right? 4:54 A fatty fatty goat. 4:55 So Rebbe Eliezer said, here's the problem. 4:58 Too much fat and because that you won't be able to see the area in between the junctures. 5:03 You won't be able to see because Rebbe will say, remember this is the spinal these are the branches of the spinal cord. 5:07 So they're not as pronounced as the primary cord itself. 5:10 So apparently the animal is too fatty, you won't be able to see it. 5:14 Okay. I see Rebbe Akiva. 5:15 He brought him a very thin animal. 5:17 He says that won't work either. 5:18 Rebbe Eliezer Rebbe Yehuda. 5:21 That's not going to work either because apparently again if the hip bones are too pronounced, the hip bones also dislodge the branches of the spinal cord. 5:29 So the animal can't be too fat, the animal can't be too thin. 5:32 Right? We'll say by the way, there's also a tremendous yesod in this which is that there are different modalities, right? 5:39 Different learning modalities. And the truth is the power of visual learning. 5:42 So we're going So interestingly enough, at the end of the day at the end of the day the Gamara says he wanted to show him it because obviously it's easier to see it than describe it. 5:51 But once they couldn't find the right animal, Amora ta Amara Gamara. 5:54 Okay, now that I now that I can't show it to you, let me teach it to you. 5:58 What is the area of an aperture? 5:59 So okay, Rashi Mual, this is what Shmuel said. 6:02 Ad achas treifa. Any severance in the spinal cord between what we call the top of the cord, which is the end of the cranium, right? 6:08 The end of the pool in, the end of right? 6:10 The occipital lobes and down up until the first juncture with the Gamara calls the Gamara calls this ad achas. 6:16 Ad achas says again, just referencing that picture in the in the chat. 6:20 Like I said, the picture's not It's just descriptive, but up until that when you see that P parsha, right? 6:25 That that beginning of the juncture. 6:26 So up until parsha ad achas, up until the first juncture, any severance in the majority of the cord is going to make it a treifa. 6:35 Shlishius, sheira. Interestingly enough, any rupture or breakage or split or severance by what what he calls the third juncture, right? 6:46 The third juncture, that's sheira, which is another way of saying what? 6:50 By the time you get to that third juncture, that's not the spinal cord anymore. 6:54 What is it? What is it? 6:55 It's flesh. It's basar. 6:57 It's basar. Therefore, any type of severance or any type of rupture is not going to be a problem. 7:03 Shnia, eilu deos. What I'm not sure about is the area that we call parsha base, right? 7:08 The second branch or the second juncture. 7:11 What is that? What is that? 7:12 Is that part of the spinal cord? 7:13 Ultimately again or is that just basar? 7:16 Okay, so that's the area of safeik. 7:18 By R' Afuna, R' Afuna and R' Yehoshua. 7:20 So R' Afuna asked R' Yehoshua. 7:21 So what's the top of men above? 7:23 Ad ad d'chlan od dilma ad d'lo ad d'chlan. 7:25 So R' Shmuel says, so then of course this raises the follow-up question. 7:28 What's the follow-up question? 7:29 When we say, right? 7:31 When when Shmuel said before, ad achas, up until the first juncture, right? 7:36 The Gamara calls it branch, right? 7:37 They up until the first juncture, so that's that's a treifa. 7:41 So when we say up until the first juncture, is that up until and including the first juncture or just up until and not including? 7:49 Ad the ad bechlal or dilma ad the belo ad bechlal? 7:53 So by Rabbah, so Rabbah has asked in Tim Salma ad belo ad bechlal, so we're still in Bavli Makkot 46a second line down from the top. 8:00 So Rabbah said in Tim Salma ad belo ad bechlal, if you assume that it means up until but not including, pi parsha mahu? 8:09 What about the entrance way? 8:10 So we'll say so remember again, you can see that on the same image as well. 8:14 Parsha is essentially right before you get to the first right right at the right where the spinal cord begins to split off. 8:22 Right, that's where the branches begin. 8:24 That's called pi parsha. 8:25 Literally again, you can see on the image over here, mouth of the branch. 8:28 That's right before it begins to branch off. 8:30 So what is that? 8:31 So the Gemara says in Tim Salma ad ad the ad bechlal, sorry, in Tim Salma ad belo ad bechlal. 8:36 So if you say up until the first means up until the first branch, but not including it. 8:41 So the first branch already itself is not included as part of the spinal cord, what about ultimately pi parsha? 8:47 What about the mouth of the branch, right at the area where it begins, right before it begins to split off? 8:51 What's the status of that area? 8:54 So by Rabbi Ami, Rabbi Ami asked in Tim Salma ad the ad bechlal, and if you hold that it means that up until the first means up until and including the first, parsha atsma mahu? 9:05 What about the branch itself? 9:07 So the Gemara So the Gemara So these are the two cashes. 9:10 So Tushma, ha parsha tidon kibasa. 9:13 So the Gemara quotes a braisa over here that says the parsha ultimately again, the branch itself tidon kibasa. 9:20 Ultimately again, is treated like flesh. 9:22 Now again, we'll say, when we say treated like flesh, what that means is the same way that if an animal has a cut in its meat, it's not a treifa. 9:30 So when we say we should treat it like flesh, it means that it would not make the animal into a treifa. 9:34 So look what the Gemara says. 9:35 So a parsha tidon kibasa, the branch itself sh- should be treated just like meat." 9:43 So, the Gamara says, "My love, parsha rishona, are we not talking about again the first parsha? 9:49 Might my love parsha rishona ushnya, are we not talking about again the first and second branches?" 9:56 To which the Gamara says, "No, shlishis. 9:57 Maybe not. Maybe we're only talking about the third." 9:59 So, what we're saying is interestingly enough, what seems to come out over here is the first branch area up Right, the first branch areas everyone seems to sit Everyone The Gamara's conclusion The Gamara seems to be that's part of the 10:10 spinal cord. Third branch, not part of the spinal cord, really just buser. 10:15 The shaila is that in between area, is that spinal cord or is that buser? 10:19 And of course, the Rebbi says not as we said before, it's not semantics because remember, depending what part of the body you are categorized as or categor- depending on what part of the body you are categorized in. 10:34 Depending on what category you're in, right? 10:36 I got a lot of flak for making up words yesterday, so I'm trying to be a little bit more careful today. 10:40 I got a got a lot of pushback on lungol. 10:42 Lungol was not very popular amongst the chevra. 10:44 But okay, so I'm trying I So, what depending on what category you're in, so ultimately will determine the halachos of treifa. 10:50 So, therefore, first branch seems to be is going to be part of the spinal cord. 10:55 Third branch area, just buser. 10:57 Second branch area, going to be a little bit of safek. 10:59 So, the Gamara says, "U ba ofa, what about in birds?" 11:02 "What about in birds?" 11:03 So, the Rebbi says, "Remember again, this image I also put on the chat. 11:06 This was actually added I added it afterwards, I'm sorry. 11:09 This is the second set of images where you have the chicken and the liver." 11:13 Two different images. So, in the chicken, the Gamara wants to know what How does the spinal cord extend? 11:18 "U ba ofa, what happens?" 11:19 Of Rebbi Yanai Omer, Rebbi Yanai Omer, Rebbi Yanai says, "Min matah min agafayim, below the wings." 11:25 So, essentially, according to Rebbi Yanai, the spinal cord extends down even past the wings. 11:32 Past the wings. If you you can see you can see it you can see it in the image over here. 11:37 So that that's how Abaye positions. 11:38 Resh Lakish Resh Lakish says at the bayn agafayim. 11:41 Resh Lakish says no, up until the area between the wings. 11:45 So what's the difference here in this distinction? 11:47 Abaye below the wings, ultimately again Resh Lakish up until between the wings. 11:53 Okay, Amora Ulla said, "Abba came in the bayn agafayim. 11:57 So one time I was in front of bayn agafayim. 12:00 Vayisu lefanav and they brought before him a bird." 12:04 U'vadak ad bayn agafayim. 12:07 And he went ahead and he checked the spinal cord up until the area between the wings. 12:12 Now again I will say watch this story. 12:13 Vayishlah lebayn agafayim then he got a message that he had to report to the house of the Nasi and he left. 12:19 Now again I will say now watch what happened over here. 12:22 So bayn agafayim was inspecting a bird for treifus. 12:25 He's getting to the spinal cord. 12:26 He got to the area. 12:27 He inspected it up until the area in between the wings. 12:31 Then he gets this invitation invitation. 12:33 He gets he's gets summoned to the house of the Nasi. 12:36 He leaves. He goes. 12:38 Now what happens? Now what's the issue? 12:40 Filo yedana im dilo treifus im dilo treifus. 12:45 Now again I will say now here's what's very interesting. 12:48 Ulla said, "I'm not sure what happened. 12:51 I'm not sure if it's that bayn agafayim only checked in the area up until the wings because halacha l'maaseh that's all he holds you have to check or what? 13:00 Or he got called to the house of the Nasi and when the Nasi calls you go. 13:05 You go." So this is fascinating. 13:06 So whereas normally again we try and learn one of the most powerful ways to glean halacha l'maaseh is to see what people actually do. 13:16 But in this particular case we're not sure what motivated bayn agafayim's action just to inspect up until the area between the wings. 13:23 Which I will say of course it's a tremendous mussar haskel that so often we also glean our realities by what we see, by what we see people do, by what we see people say, but sometimes it's important to understand that 13:33 there may be other contributing factors that may lead a person to act in a certain way and we may or may not be privy to that information. 13:42 So, always be careful by about drawing conclusions from just what you're able to see and able to observe in other people's behavior cuz again, more often than not, I do not have the full picture. 13:53 Incredible. Okay. Let's go back to Nitla Kovid. 13:56 So, what does it mean again? 13:57 The next piece in the Mishnah was if the liver was removed, right? 14:01 If the liver is missing, then Halacha L'Maaseh, the animal is a Treifa. 14:06 So, the Gemara says, what can you infer from here? 14:08 Now, the way the Mishnah is the way the Mishnah is phrased is if the liver is removed in its totality. 14:14 There's no liver. If there's no liver, then the animal is a Treifa. 14:17 What can I infer from that? 14:19 Hamish Tayar Hemen Akloom Sheira. 14:21 What I can infer from that is that if there is anything left in the liver, ultimately again, the animal would be kosher. 14:30 So, the Gemara says, Af Al Gav D'Lo Havik Zayis. 14:33 Now, this is true even though what? 14:35 Even though again, there's not a K'Zayis. 14:38 Even though there's not a K'Zayis. 14:39 So, the Gemara says, "Wait a minute, I bow a second, but we learned Nitla Kovid V'Nishtayar Hemen Akloom Sheira." 14:46 But, we learned that Halacha L'Maaseh, if the liver was removed and a K'Zayis was left, ultimately again, it's kosher. 14:52 So, what this says is we have a Stira. 14:54 Our Mishnah makes it sound like for the animal not to be a Treifa, all you need is is some amount. 15:01 Yet again, the Gemara over here says that you the the Braisa the Mishnah says that if the liver is taken, you require a K'Zayis. 15:08 So, which one is it? 15:09 Is it a Kol Shehu? 15:10 Is it any amount? 15:11 Or is it a K'Zayis? 15:12 Amra Rabbi Yosi. Rabbi Yosi says, "Lo Kasha, it's not a contradiction, it's Machlokes. 15:15 It's Machlokes Rabbi Chiya Rabbi Shimon Bar Rabbi." 15:19 Two fundamentally different opinions. 15:21 One is Rabbi Chiya and one is bar two different opinions about the liver. 15:28 So the says the says it's actually very interesting is used to throw out the liver. 15:35 In other words, he felt that the liver wasn't really wasn't really a piece of meat for consumption. 15:41 He would go ahead and take it and he would dip it. 15:42 He would eat it. 15:43 The way to remember this is a person who is rich sometimes is miserly. 15:49 Now what what's going on over here? 15:50 Take a look at for just a moment. 15:52 Rashi says over here if you look at Rashi is in the intermediate lines right before it gets wide. 16:01 Rashi says four lines up from before it gets wide. 16:05 Fully wide. So again, so the says so I'm sorry. 16:14 He if he was the one who held that there has to be a of the liver that's left. 16:19 So if there wasn't a of the liver, see he felt that the animal was a if the animal was a obviously it can't be consumed. 16:27 What do you do if it can't be consumed? 16:29 So you go ahead and you go ahead and you feed it to your animal. 16:33 So that that was so the says but Rashi but but then but Rashi would go ahead and dip with it. 16:40 What does that mean? 16:40 You look at Rashi all the whole so he would eat it. 16:47 So interestingly enough Rashi bar Rashi felt that the liver was and he would go ahead and eat it. 16:52 All the whole so again did not feel that the liver was so because then model in order for the animal not to be a there had to be at least the kazayis of the liver left intact because the liver wasn't 17:21 khashuv enough on its own. 17:23 Therefore, needed to have a more khashuv shiur in order for the animal not to be a treif. 17:27 So, he required a kazayis of the liver to be intact. 17:31 Rebbe Shimon mat bilay da'af agav d'lav basar v'kakh v'shum usa d'khasar v'nishama t'luyah bah. 17:38 On the other hand, Rebbe Shimon held that the liver liver was very khashuv. 17:41 Because it was very khashuv, even a kol shehu, even any amount of the liver ultimately again would render the animal a non-treif. 17:48 So, what's I saw again you hear the distinction. 17:51 So, again, according to the setting this up is this a fundamental machlokes. 17:55 Rebbe Chiya Rebbe Chiya, in order for the animal not to be a treif, he felt the liver wasn't wasn't khashuv. 18:01 Because it wasn't khashuv, therefore, you need at least a kazayis of it to be intact in order for the animal not to be a treif. 18:09 On the other hand, Rebbe Shimon felt the liver is khashuv. 18:12 Because it is khashuv, any amount of the liver will take away the treif status ultimately from the animal. 18:19 Incredible. >> [clears throat] >> The Gemara tells a story. 18:22 The Gemara goes and by the way, and the the way the the mnemonic over there or the way to remember this the Gemara says is that rich people are miserly. 18:29 So, the Gemara says Ashir Mekansen Rebbe Shimon ben Rebbe ben Noshi Nasi. 18:34 Rebbe Shimon was the son of the Nasi. 18:36 So, obviously again, the Nasi was very wealthy. 18:38 He was very wealthy. 18:39 Since Rebbe Shimon was the son of was very wealthy, he would not discard even a small piece of liver. 18:45 Right? Because he felt that the liver was khashuv, the liver had a lot of health benefits to it. 18:49 Since even though he was very wealthy, he didn't have to go ahead and save a small piece of liver, he would still do so. 18:55 Okay. Incredible. The Gemara goes right there. 18:57 How will most of the Aslaf Pum Bedisa? 18:59 There was also a Pumusa is a group of soldiers. 19:03 Rashi says Khail HaShulton, a group of soldiers the Aslaf Pum Bedisa that ultimately came to the city of Pum Bedisa. 19:11 Arku Rabba v'Rebbe Yosef. 19:12 Rabba and Rebbe Yosef ran away. 19:14 So, apparently there was some this is obviously a gentile army that was coming to town. 19:19 They they ran away. 19:20 What happened? Arku Raba bar Yosef Palga bar Rabi Zera. 19:26 So they ran into Rabi Zera. 19:27 Rabi Zera said to them "Arukay." 19:30 Now it's interesting Rabi Zera called them Arukay. 19:32 Arukay means refugees. Refugees. 19:35 Rashi says over here Arukay "Gemira minay hamiltza or the makol I will come to what the halacha is just a moment." 19:43 So apparently Rabi Zera going to see didn't have to flee. 19:46 Rabi Zera was a person of means. 19:48 He did not have to run away ultimately again from the army that was there. 19:52 So Rabi Zera says "Hey Arukay, refugees. 19:55 Kizayis amru bamakom mara." 19:58 So what is saying this is now a very important halacha. 20:00 So Rabi Zera wants to say that when we say that a kizayis of the liver needs to be intact in order that the animal is not a treifa, it's not just any liver or it's not just any part of the 20:11 liver, but it's got to be the part of the liver next to the gallbladder. 20:15 So I will say if you could see in the image in the in the image that I put on the WhatsApp chat, you could see a little picture of the liver over here. 20:23 Right? And you could see the liver interestingly enough abuts a number of different things, right? 20:29 So the liver the liver comes right up to the right kidney and the liver is also right next to the gallbladder. 20:35 Right? That's the green over here. 20:37 And that white thing around that's the diaphragm. 20:40 Which we're going to discuss in just a moment. 20:42 So now the Gemara says as follows. 20:43 Rabi Zera says that when we say that you require a kizayis of the liver, so that is the liver in the area by the gallbladder. 20:51 Rav Ada bar Rav Amram Shiyaya. 20:54 Rav Ada bar Rav Amram says it's in the place literally again where the liver lives. 20:58 Rashi says what is that a reference to? 21:00 If you look at Rashi, Rashi says over here "Makom Shiyaya shiyakovid misham makom shiyamu divuga tachas aklyos zeniarly umats >> So Rashi first calls that the area by the kidneys, but then he changes his mind is the area by the diaphragm. 21:18 Area by the diaphragm. 21:19 So we'll say, so now interestingly enough, not only do you need a kazayis of the liver in order to go out in the animal not be a treifah, but it's not got specific part of the liver machlokes. 21:31 Is it a part of the liver by the gallbladder? 21:34 Is it a part of the liver by the diaphragm? 21:36 That's a machlokes. Amora Papa, so this is very interesting. 21:38 Papa says, so now what do you do with this? 21:40 Hilchos b'einan kazayis b'makom maro o b'einan kazayis b'makom shichayo. 21:46 So we'll say this is fascinating. 21:47 So therefore Papa said, listen, therefore because this is a machlokes and apparently the gemara is not resolving it, essentially what's the halacha? 21:53 You need both. You need both. 21:56 And halacha l'maaseh again we're going to need a kazayis of the liver by the gallbladder and a kazayis of the liver by the diaphragm. 22:04 I'm going to require both. 22:07 In order for the animal not to be a treifah. 22:09 Incredible. By Rebbi Yirmiya. 22:11 Rebbi Yirmiya asked, mislakkes mahu? 22:13 So we'll say, so now this is all assuming that you kind of have the liver in we'll call it the lack of a better term like one mass. 22:20 One mass. What happens if it's not one mass? 22:22 Now mislakkes Rashi says over here, kazayis mislakkes d'lo b'makom echad ela chatzi kazayis kan v'chatzi v'chatzi kazayis kan. 22:31 What happens if you have a kazayis of liver, but it's not all in one area? 22:35 Not all in one area. 22:36 There's half a kazayis over here, half a kazayis over there. 22:39 So it's spread out a little bit. 22:41 So do we say that different pieces of spread out liver can form the proper requisite halachic mass? 22:48 Mahu? Keritsu'a mahu? Or what happens again if instead of a mass it's like a strip? 22:54 Does that work? So Rebbi Avahu said, kazayis merudad mahu? 22:58 What happens if it's like a flattened strip? 23:01 Does that work? To which the Gemara answers to all of this, take all. 23:05 Take all. The Gemara kind of leaves that as as an open as an open-ended question. 23:16 So, this is an interesting case over here. 23:18 Now, the the wording is a little bit strange. 23:20 The Gemara is going to ask, "The down below literally means dislodged." 23:24 So, if the liver was dislodged, but it is embedded in the diaphragm, now what is that law? 23:31 Ultimately again, what's the status of the liver? 23:37 I don't understand. If it's if it's if it's attached to the diaphragm, then it's not dislodged. 23:42 Then it's not dislodged. 23:43 That that's where the liver needs to be. 23:45 So, what does this mean? 23:55 Is matter of fact, we just established before, there's two opinions over here. 23:58 Right? So, we'll say so first I want to point out the Gemara is operating with the understanding that the amount of liver that needs to be intact in order for the animal not to be a treif is a kazayis. 24:09 That's the Gemara is operating over here with. 24:11 The fundamental machlokes is, where does that kazayis need to be? 24:15 So, that's a machlokes. 24:16 One opinion says the kazayis needs to be by the gallbladder. 24:19 Other opinion says the kazayis needs to be by the diaphragm. 24:22 So, the Gemara says, "When you say the down below, when you go ahead and you say that it was dislodged, I don't understand what that means." 24:27 Either the words Again, we already established Either it's attached Either it's attached to the gallbladder, good to go, or attached to the diaphragm, good to go. 24:35 And if you don't have that, then it's going to be a treif. 24:37 Okay, incredible. How do you actually cover it? 24:39 And I will say now we come to the lungs. 24:41 How do you actually cover it? 24:41 See, if the lung if the lung is perforated, ultimately again, the animal is a treif. 24:47 So, let's analyze it. 24:47 Rav Shmuel bar Rav Assi, the Amora, came along and he I mean they commented so okay, so we'll say so just a word about this. 24:54 There are two membranes on the lungs. 24:56 There's an outer membrane and an inner membrane. 24:59 The outer membrane, the Gamorah explains, uh right? 25:04 Alan, it's only Monday. 25:05 It's only Monday. Hey, so so so the Gamorah says as follows. 25:09 So again, the outer membrane is white, the inner membrane is red. 25:15 Is red. So again, so now we're talking about Now the shilah question is as we saw by the way yesterday with the brain, right? 25:21 The brain also has two membranes and part of our discussion was which membrane has to be perforated in order for the animal to be a treifa. 25:29 So now with the lungs, the Gamorah is going to ask the same exact question. 25:33 So say here we go. 25:39 So now the Here's what the Mishnah tells me. 25:41 The Mishnah tells me that if the if the membrane is perforated, the animal is a treifa. 25:46 So the shilah is which membrane? 25:49 So they all say it is the outer membrane. 25:53 The outer membrane, which again is Again, this the color the color is going to be important as you're going to see in just a moment. 25:59 This is the outer whitish membrane. 26:01 Others say no, it's the secondary inner reddish membrane. 26:07 The way to remember this is the red robe in which the lung sits. 26:19 I guess that was a helpful memory tool for them. 26:21 I don't know. Doesn't seem too helpful, but right? 26:22 The red What was the red robe a reference to? 26:25 The red robe is a reference to the inner membrane, which is red. 26:28 So the Gamorah essentially seems to be saying over here it has to be the inner membrane that's perforated in order for the lung to be a treifa. 26:34 Whatever the animal be a treifa. 26:36 So the Gamorah says listen to this. 26:37 So it's obvious. If you ink up the If you ink up the margin, So say if the outer membrane was perforated, but the inner one was not, the animal is not a treifa. 26:49 Why? Because the inner membrane ultimately protects the protects the lung like rather what the rather say I'm rather how rather the egg lid so I say here we go little on the base this this lung that was egg lid means 27:03 it was perforated or egg lid literally means skinned right but for our purposes perforated can I hear not Suka Shira and it's like a red date ultimately again it's kosher now what does that mean it's like a red date look 27:16 at Rashi top Rashi on the base from a tattoo become rather more remember the secondary inner membrane is red so when that outer membrane is removed the lung looks like a red date because which means but the inner membrane is 27:32 intact so I look at the mice what I'm rather saying is like this everyone is going to agree that if the outer membrane is perforated but the inner membrane is fully intact how do you know what the inner membrane is 27:41 fully intact if the lung looks like a red date then I will walk the mice and that's a good indication that the inner membrane is intact and if it's intact the lung is going to be kosher in other words the 27:53 animal is not a treif okay watch this ink of the soy little ink of the loy magin a little magin now here's the interesting Shira what happens if the inner membrane is perforated but the outer one is intact does the 28:08 outer one does the outer one essentially protect the lung or not that that that's our Shira so again I will say so obviously it goes without saying if both are perforated of course the animal is a treif right also again 28:21 I will walk the mice if the outer one is perforated but the inner was one one is intact the animal is kosher the Shira is inner perforated outer one fully intact what is the status of the animal so watch this 28:36 this is fascinating so please bow the back of the retina so the back of the retina ultimately went ahead and Adam has this about this low magin the Adam magin one says one says that the outer the outer membrane can 28:52 protect the lung and one says it does not. 28:55 The Halacha Magin. And the Halacha is that if the outer membrane is intact, even if the inner one is perforated, the animal is kosher cuz we assume that the outer membrane the outer membrane goes ahead and protects the lung. 29:08 Which I will say essentially sounds like what the sounds like what the essentially saying is as long as one of the membranes is intact ultimately again the animal is kosher cuz obviously again the one says it goes without saying that 29:19 if the inner membrane is intact, but the outer one is perforated the animal is kosher. 29:23 But even if the outer membrane even if the inner membrane is perforated and the outer one is is intact, Halacha the animal is going to be kosher as well. 29:32 Now watch this I will say the one says now now there's there's a test. 29:35 There's a test and this is quite fascinating. 29:37 Look at it I will say. 29:39 And the one says we go like what does this is fascinating. 29:43 I will say we're going to see this also in tomorrow's daf as well. 29:46 Hi Raya Davsha. So listen to this. 29:49 If you have a lung now I will say now the Davsha Rashi says over here if you look at Rashi second line from the top Davsha Kisha Nofchin Osa Mashma'as Kol Kilo Rak Yotzei Mimenu. 30:01 So what does it mean Davsha? 30:03 If you blow up the lung, right? 30:05 If you blow up the lung you hear air escaping. 30:09 So if you blow up the lung you hear air like hissing a hissing sound. 30:13 You you hear air escaping. 30:15 So like how do you Davsha? 30:17 So someone say so now so now I will say if you hear air escaping now what is that what does that indicate? 30:22 Right? There's a perforation. 30:23 So now again I will say now watch this. 30:25 Ee Adinan Heicha Avsha. 30:27 So if you know where the air is escaping, right? 30:30 If you know where the perforation is, okay no problem. 30:32 What do you do? 30:33 It's fascinating. Most Vinan Al Gad Fo Oral Orogah. 30:39 So what do you do? 30:39 You put a feather or you put uh saliva. 30:44 Or gila, or you put straw on that area. 30:46 Now again, I'm going to say, "What do What do you want to see?" 30:49 Im im vats vitsa treifa. 30:52 If the feather, the saliva, or the straw moves, then the animal is a treifa. 30:59 Cuz what does that indicate? 31:00 What does that indicate? 31:01 Yes, lungal perforation. And I believe that is a proper use of the word. 31:05 Right? Lungal perforation, right? 31:07 That indicates perforation, right? 31:08 Then again, cuz it's moving. 31:10 It's moving. The e lo ksheira. 31:13 But if the feather, the saliva, or the straw doesn't move, then the animal is going to be kosher. 31:18 So what it says here is what's interesting, because you begin to see essentially you could have a In other words, so the size of the perforation is fascinating. 31:25 The size of the perforation that makes the animal a treifa is enough air escaping to move a feather, saliva, or straw on top of it. 31:35 But if you could have a hissing sound, but if the perforation is not strong enough to allow enough air to dislodge, to move the feather, the straw, the saliva, the animal is going to be kosher. 31:43 So interesting. The e lo ksheira. 31:45 Actually, I was talking about this with my son-in-law over Shabbos. 31:48 And he actually told me Actually told me that when he was growing up in Yeshiva, he had a rebbe who brought in a set of lungs from the Schlacht Haus and allowed the king allowed the kids to blow it up. 31:59 Right? I said like, "What grade was this?" 32:01 He said, "Fifth." I said like, I I I hope he was brought up like on child endangerment or something, you know, like that. 32:07 But uh different different time different time. 32:10 So he says as follows, "Interesting. 32:11 The e lo ksheira." 32:12 So he says as follows, "The e lo ya dina heicha." 32:15 Now again, I'm going to say, "Now all of that presupposes that what? 32:18 That you know where the perforation is on the lungs." 32:22 What if you don't know where the perforation is, which which would seem to be the more common case, right? 32:28 So in other words, I blow up the lungs cuz again, we're going to talk about We're going to talk about how this is I'm going to blow up the lungs. 32:33 I hear air escaping. 32:35 I don't know where the air is escaping from. 32:38 So, what do I do? 32:39 This is fascinating. My sin on muscle to the Maya. 32:45 You bring a bowl of water. 32:47 You bring a bowl of water. 32:48 Sure, right? But, it's got to be lukewarm water. 32:51 Almost seen a little bit of a and I put the lungs in the water in the bowl of water. 32:56 Now again, the temperature over here is very important. 32:59 Be coming in. Now again, low the cup see. 33:02 You can't put in hot water because if you put in hot water ultimately again, it's going to it's going to it's going to go ahead and contract. 33:12 Yeah. Shrivel. Shrivel. Thank you. 33:16 Contract, right? It's going to go right it's going to shrivel up. 33:18 It's going to shrivel up. 33:19 Be coming in low. 33:20 You can't put it in cold water. 33:21 Why? The material sheet because it hardens. 33:24 It hardens and you're not going to get an accurate view of the of the lung. 33:27 Hello. Well, see the shuri. 33:29 So again, you put in lukewarm water cuz lukewarm water won't won't cause it to contract and also won't cause it to harden. 33:35 And then what do you do? 33:36 Then I think of in the water blowing to it, right? 33:39 And allow it to expand. 33:41 Eat me that's the saw treifa. 33:43 So, you're going to say if you see the water bubbling up. 33:46 Now again, so this this is on our it's the same thing as the feather saliva straw test. 33:53 Just feather saliva straw, the famous feather saliva straw test, right? 33:57 Only works if you know where the perforation is. 34:00 Over here, I don't know where the perforation is. 34:02 So, I'm just putting it in a bowl of water blowing it up and I'm looking for where the bubbles are going to come up. 34:07 So, where are the bubbles going to come up? 34:08 Well, I should say differently. 34:09 If bubbles come up, that's indicative that there's enough of a perforation to allow air flow because you also remember again, essentially, the size of a perforation that makes the animal a treifa is enough of a perforation that allows air to 34:22 escape from the lungs. 34:24 That that's what we're looking for over here. 34:26 If air could escape from the lungs, the animal is a treifa. 34:29 How do you know if air could escape from a lungs? 34:31 So again, if I know where the perforation is, if there's enough air to move a feather, saliva, straw, that is lung or perforation. 34:39 If I don't know where it is, if it's enough air to create bubbles in the water, that's indicative of perforation. 34:45 That would make it a treif. 34:46 Incredible. Animals seem immature. 34:48 But I have a hole in it. 34:49 If it that fits a treif, it looks treif. 34:53 Ultimately, again, so if if it causes if it causes bubbles, then it's a treif. 34:57 And if not, it is going to be a treif. 34:59 So, the Gamera says The Gamera says good. 35:03 The side in cave either way in cave. 35:06 So, the Gamera says, so what happened? 35:07 The side in cave either way in cave. 35:09 So, what does it say? 35:10 So, what does it say? 35:10 So, what happened? So, but I say so jumping back over here. 35:14 So, the Gamera says, so that would be indicative of the fact that ultimately again the inner membrane was perforated, the outer one was not. 35:20 The height of off shore Zeki the beni beni who. 35:24 So, what does it say? 35:25 So, interestingly enough in a case where the inner one was perforated, the outer one was not, sometimes Zeki the hissing can be indicative of air that's trapped in between the two membranes. 35:35 Now, again, I will say we're going to we're going to discuss this idea. 35:39 If you look at Rashi, the side in cave. 35:42 Rashi says by a rule Rashi's right across. 35:45 The side in cave by a rule you'll see maybe that I can have the inner yard not say it's what's with me chroma all your own shamagin. 35:53 The nick master of the main base of chroma the fica she mashma as call. 35:58 So, what does it say? 35:58 This is very interesting. 35:59 So, obviously, if you're seeing bubbling on the outside, that's indicative of what? 36:04 Now, again, remember let's take a step back over here. 36:07 How did we get to this? 36:09 So, remember the Gamera was asking a very specific question, which is that halacha l'ma'aseh if the inner membrane was perforated and the outer membrane was not. 36:17 So, the what's the status of the animal? 36:19 Is the animal a treif or not? 36:20 So, the Gamera wanted to suggest that halacha l'ma'aseh it works. 36:24 It works. The animal's not a treif. 36:26 If the outer membrane is intact. 36:28 So, now remember in general, how do you know if the animal's a treif? 36:32 We're going to blow up the lungs. 36:33 We're going to blow up the lungs. 36:34 So, essentially, there's three cases. 36:36 Case number one is right in all these cases you're hearing hissing. 36:39 Case number one is I know where the perforation is. 36:43 So, in that case, what do you do? 36:44 Put something over the perforation. 36:47 The straw, the the straw, the saliva, the feather. 36:52 If it moves, the animal's a treif. 36:54 If it doesn't move, the animal's not a treif. 36:56 Case number two, I hear hissing, but I don't know where the hissing is coming from. 37:01 What do you do? 37:02 Blow up the lungs, put it in a bowl, or or put it in a bowl of of warm water. 37:06 Blow up the lungs, see where the bubbles come from, or see if bubbles come up or not. 37:11 Case two, I will say is where you hear hissing, but there's no bubbles. 37:15 There's no bubbles. Now, if you hear hissing and there's no bubbles, what is that? 37:20 So, you might as well say, "Oh, that's a case of where the inner membrane is perforated, the outer one is not. 37:27 And what you're hearing, the hissing that you're hearing, is the air trapped in between the two membranes." 37:33 The Gemara's suggesting in this According to what the Gemara says over here, that is not a treif. 37:37 That's the Gemara suggesting over here. 37:39 So, interestingly enough, as much as we would have thought hissing is always indicative that it's a treif, come out from the Gemara says sometimes if you hear hissing, but there's no bubbles, no bubbles, that's indicative of air trapped in between 37:50 the two membranes. Fascinating. 37:52 So, the Gemara says Gufan, Mar Zutra Amemar Rabba Hiyya the Iglet Kahina Sum Kakshera. 37:58 So, Rabba said, "If you have a if you have a lung that is literally again skinned and looks like a red date." 38:05 Right, right, literally the Iglet means the which essentially looks like a red date. 38:09 What does that indicate? 38:10 The outer the outer the outer membrane has been removed and all there is is the inner membrane. 38:15 So, the inner red membrane will look like a red date. 38:18 The the the the lung the animal is kosher. 38:22 So, the Gemara says Amemar Rabba says Resh Dima makes us let's say the lung the lung became reddened in a certain spot, let's say the lung the lung became reddened in a certain spot, if if only part of it is 38:36 is reddish, right, reddened, then the animal is kosher. 38:40 But if the entire lung became red, then it's treif. 38:44 So the animal says, "I'm going to give you another rebuttal. 38:46 Why is that? What is the shot that if part of the lung becomes red, that the animal is going to become kosher? 38:48 Why is that? Because the assumption is there's some type of injury on the lung, but because it's only a partial injury, the lung will be healed." 39:03 The animal says, "I don't understand. 39:04 Why would that be true even if the entire lung was injured?" 39:06 In other words, the animal would say, "So apparently again, when it becomes red, that's indicative of some type of internal injury. 39:14 So if we assume that it heals in part, then it should heal in whole. 39:19 Why should there be a distinction? 39:21 After all, we learned in the Torah that we did not learn that small insects, small rodents, that have a softer skin, if you go ahead and you injure them, you're not in violation. 39:28 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:30 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:31 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:33 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:34 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:36 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:37 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:39 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:40 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:42 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:43 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:45 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:46 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:48 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:49 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn. 39:51 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 39:52 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's you injure certain animals, right? 39:58 So the animal says, "One of the one of the laws on Shabbat is that you can't obviously if you hurt something, you're in violation of Shabbat. 40:05 But if you draw blood, you're also in violation of Shabbat. 40:08 What happens if you injure an animal and let's say it causes a wound underneath the skin, but there's no blood that's drawn? 40:14 So the animal says, "For certain animals, you're not in violation. 40:18 Why? Because even though you've caused a wound underneath the skin, it will heal. 40:23 It will heal. So, the wound, which represents a pulling of blood, ultimately again will heal." 40:28 So, the same way ultimately again, the Gamara says "Dema, the Shmona Shratzim will maybe we should compare an animal ultimately again to the Shmona to the eight Shratzim, the Sanya Nitzra Hadam Af Pishlo Yatzan. 40:41 In certain animals, if you cause a wound and the blood pools, that is not going to heal and therefore a local mice are for Shchita. 40:49 Yihya Kilu Mitzas Anami. 40:51 If that's the case, then even if part of the lung becomes red, a local mice are that should also cause the animal to be a Treifa. 40:57 Rather, the Gamara says "Ela Lo Shna." 41:00 So, what this is very interesting. 41:01 So, the Gamara says, "You're right. 41:02 There is no distinction whether part of the lung becomes red or the whole part of the lung becomes red, that is definitely indicative of some type of injury, but we are confident that the injury will heal and therefore it does 41:15 not make the animal a Treifa." 41:17 So, what is very important. 41:18 So, the Gamara seems to be indicating over here that if the lung is unusually red, that is indicative of an injury, but a local mice will not make the animal a Treifa. 41:27 That's the Lo Shna. 41:29 Rava says, "Re'ah She'avsha Mitzasa Treifa." 41:34 So, listen to this. 41:35 If you have a lung that partially dried up, even if it's only part of it that dried up, the animal is a Treifa. 41:41 Any part of the lung that totally dried out is a Treifa. 41:44 The Kama, what's the what's the shear of drying out? 41:47 Amra Papi Mi Shmei D'Rava, "K'dei She'tifrach B'Tziporen." 41:50 Enough that if you were to scratch it with your nail, it would disintegrate. 41:54 If it's that brittle and that dried out that if you were to touch it, it would disintegrate. 41:58 A local mice are that's a Treifa. 42:01 G'man, who's the pain that this reflect? 42:03 Krav Yosi Ben Amram Sholom. 42:04 Krav Yosi Ben Amram Sholom says "Sanya Eizo Hi Yavesha." 42:07 What's the definition ultimately again? 42:09 I will say this happens to be a totally different topic. 42:13 The Gamara is talking about over here actually again of a Bechor. 42:17 Of a Bechor. What's the case ultimately again where Rashi says over here the Gamara Bechor. 42:24 Remember again if a Bechor has a Mum it is redeemed. 42:27 It is redeemed right and usable by the Cohen. 42:29 So what's the definition of something animal we're going to stop over here I don't want to rush through this. 42:36 We'll stop over here today so we're stopping again. 42:38 We're stopping with the Gamara statement that if the lung becomes dried out it is a treifa. 42:46 What's the definition of dried out? 42:48 And here it says to be continued tomorrow. 42:49 Shkoyach everyone. I tried
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