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0:21 All right, so we'll say good morning. 0:22 Uh good morning. Let us begin begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning's sheer to thank our Thomas our sponsors for the month of Sevan Habalino Trova Al Mashiach coming for dedicating all the Sherman Joshua's this month in 0:36 memory of Rafael Yechiel ben Avraham Zichrono Livracha. 0:40 Our Daf Yomi sponsors for today are Alan and Sarah Steinberg in the source of continued health. 0:45 For Shulamis Chana bas Sosha and for an ultimate Refuah Shleimah and Shmuel and Hindi Eisenstein as a source for a Refuah Shleimah for Shmuel's father Chaim Mordechai ben Chava, who underwent surgery yesterday and in Baruch Hashem is recovering. 1:01 This perek is especially meaningful as it is the perek he knows best after more than 50 years as a shochet. 1:07 May the learning be a source for a complete Refuah for Chaim Mordechai ben Chava besoch shaar cholei Yisrael. 1:14 We'll say with that, let us begin. 1:16 We are picking up in Meritz Hashem on today's daf is mem gimmel 43 and we are picking up in Meritz Hashem on mem bais on the bais 42b and we left off with Vayika shev shmaitsisa, which is 2 4 6 1:30 8 10 12 14 about 15 lines up from the bottom. 1:34 Also tremendous shkoyach to the participants in the chazarah chaburah and shkoyach to Rabbi Eisenman for our giving sheer last night. 1:41 Shkoyach to Rabbi Eisenstein for the last two nights before and shkoyach to Rabbi Ami for last night. 1:46 Stay tuned next week. 1:47 I hear we have Dr. 1:48 Josh Rosenblum on top for next week in Meritz Hashem. 1:51 Excited about that. It's beautiful way again. 1:54 It's a nice chaburah that's there. 1:55 A beautiful way to chash the daf for a couple of minutes each evening. 1:58 And of course, it's to hang out with some beautiful Hava. 2:00 Both you get two things. 2:01 You get the Torah, you get the companionship, the friendship. 2:04 Incredible. What's with that? 2:05 But Eco Chef Schmeiser, remember again in yesterday's Gemara, we spoke about the idea that there are 18 treifas, 18 types of treifas, 18 different conditions in animal which render it a treifa. 2:17 Mishnah lists those 18, and it turns out that those 18 are halacha l'Moshe miSinai. 2:23 The Gemara then asks, "But one second, only 18? 2:26 What about Bas Gar, which was in a manic four, another four, and of course the Chef Schmeiser, so these additional seven which we have not seen yet, which we're going to see now. 2:36 What about those?" So the Gemara said, "Remember, according to our Mishnah, that's not a problem. 2:40 Why is it not a problem?" 2:41 Because our Mishnah used the lashon of Zeh Haklal. 2:44 This is the rule. 2:45 And whenever you see lashon of Zeh Haklal, that always comes to include something else. 2:48 Not a problem. The problem was according to Tanna d'Vei Rabbi Yishmael. 2:52 So we did So we did cuz Tanna d'Vei Rabbi Yishmael seemed to be explicit that there's only 18 and no more. 2:57 So we did a lot of interesting halachic maneuvering yesterday in yesterday's daf to kind of take certain things out from the Mishnah's list and replace them with everything. 3:06 So we took care yesterday in yes But by the end of yesterday's daf, we took care of Bas Gar. 3:11 Those additional four, we found a way to kind of fit them in. 3:14 I will Eco Chef Schmeiser. 3:16 What about the additional seven? 3:18 What about the additional seven rulings? 3:19 Again, what says now we're going to go through them. 3:21 Dam Rav Masna, Hibuka d'Atma, d'Shaf miduchtei treifa. 3:26 If you have an animal with a ball of the thigh bone pops out of the socket, that makes it a treifa. 3:32 Okay, v'Amar Rav Ashi bar Papa b'Shmei d'Rav, Loxah b'Kulyah Achas treifa. 3:38 If an animal has a has a disease or a sickness, an illness in one of the kidneys, that makes it a treifa. 3:45 U'Tnan, and we also said these are all additional treifas. 3:49 U'Tnan, and we learned Nital Ha'Tchol Sh'eirah, if the spleen was removed, ultimately again, if the spleen is removed, the animal is a treif the animal excuse me, the animal is kosher from Amora of Avira which made the rabba. 4:02 And Avira said in the name of rabba, when is that true? 4:04 Lo shor al hanitel, that's only if al hamaseh it was totally removed. 4:09 Avon nikev treifa. But all this is actually very interesting. 4:13 If the spleen was removed, the animal is kosher. 4:16 If the spleen was perforated, ultimately again the animal is a treifa. 4:21 It's quite fascinating. But Amora rabba said like these are all the shishas, these are all the the additional treifa rulings. 4:26 Amora rabba Shmuel, simanim mishne dalu beruvan treifa. 4:31 If you have the simanim again remember the simanim refers to the kanne hareshet. 4:35 That if they were now dalu literally means like detached. 4:39 We'll get into a little bit more exactly what that means, but if they were detached along the majority, it's a treifa. 4:45 Va Amora rabba bar bar Shila Amora bar Masna Amora Shmuel, nekra sela mekara. 4:51 If ultimately again if the rib is detached from its base, treifa. 4:57 The animal is a treifa. 4:58 Vego goless shenich besubba. 5:00 And if you have a skull that was crushed the majority of it was crushed, or basar oves rova kares beruvan treifa. 5:07 Or again you have the flesh that covers the kares. 5:11 Remember kares is one of the stomachs of the animal that was perforated beruvan that I that has something along its majority is a treifa. 5:20 Nikuv is say point of this what do you see from here? 5:22 These represent the additional seven forms of treifa. 5:26 So once again I will say we're dealing with a very simple question. 5:29 Kanna de Be Rabbi Shmuel said 18 and no more. 5:33 But again clearly there are more. 5:35 So what do we do with this? 5:36 We learn this something very interesting. 5:37 The Mar says nikuvai tam di avo kashvinuhu dechad. 5:40 Apik shev ayil shev. 5:42 This is very interesting. 5:43 If you look in the 18 list of the 18 fascinatingly enough, so eight of them fall into the category of perforations. 5:51 Perforations. So, we could actually collapse all of those into one category. 5:57 You can make that the category of perforations, so you could collapse. 6:00 It's very interesting. You could collapse eight into one. 6:03 You understand what the is doing over here? 6:04 As opposed to, let's say, going ahead and listing every single treifot, perhaps what we could do is categorically we could group them and we could kind and that gives them that groups them all under one or another. 6:14 So, we could take all of the treifot, which are all related to perforations of different things, and collapse that into one category of perforations, and then that frees up seven spots. 6:26 Beautiful. Once you free up seven spots, we have something exactly to fill it with, the shesh shmaitzes, or the seven rulings we just mentioned. 6:33 So, the says, "So, I picked shesh, take out seven, shesh put seven in." 6:39 If that's the case, so okay, now we treifot. 6:42 So, then we have two cases of severed items. 6:45 So, then why don't you collapse those into one category as well? 6:48 And the says, "But here's the problem." 6:51 Now, what's the say if you take the two cases ultimately again of detached items. 6:57 If you take those sides and collapse them into one case, now what? 7:00 What's the problem? We're down one. 7:01 We're in up to 16. 7:03 Sorry, up to 17. 7:07 Furthermore, again, the case of name of is also a case of perforation. 7:12 That was the case of where the spleen is perforated. 7:15 So, the says, "That's also a perforation case." 7:17 Again, and that was that's ultimately again that was one of the shesh shmaitzes. 7:21 So, that was one of the seven. 7:23 The says, "We'll say top of 43A. 7:26 Okay, so rather the two that we removed originally don't remove them. 7:34 Don't remove them." Which one was that? 7:36 Those are actually two in yesterday's daf that we saw. 7:38 points out, "That's the animal that it got that had its leg severed above the joint and glued out. 7:46 Glued this animal that was flayed. 7:48 So, don't take those two out. 7:50 Okay, and if you don't take those two out, that restores it back to 18 treifas. 7:55 Okay, beautiful. So, what it says is now at this point in time, what we have done is we've established we've established the list according to our Mishnah. 8:03 And our Mishnah is easiest, right? 8:04 Because our Mishnah, even though the Mishnah lists 18 treifas, we're not bound by 18 because of Zayach law. 8:11 But according to the very Vishmal who is bound by the number 18, we've seen how with a good deal of maneuvering, we are able to go ahead and reach that number. 8:20 Incredible. Okay, let's go back there. 8:21 I'm going to go over this as follows. 8:23 Has many treifas number of the motion of Sinai. 8:26 There are eight different types of treifas, eight different really eight different types of categories that were said to Moshe Rabbeinu at Har Sinai. 8:33 What were the eight categories? 8:35 Nekuvah, nekuvah like literally means like perforated. 8:38 Pesukah, detached. Netulah, removed. 8:41 Hasurah, deficient. Keruah, torn. 8:44 Drusah, drusah usually Drusah is often translated as like clawed. 8:49 But drusah means when the animal is injured by another animal. 8:53 Nefulah, it falls down like that was the case of the cow falling off the roof. 8:58 Shevurah, and broken. Right? 9:00 Case of the bones are broken. 9:01 So, what I'll say is it's important to note over here, this is a different way of keeping track of all the treifas. 9:08 So, instead of like what our Mishnah did, going through actual like each type of actual treifah condition, here what we've done is we've grouped them into categories. 9:18 Okay? So, the Gemara says, what does this come to exclude? 9:21 Lafuke lekusah derachish bar papa. 9:25 This comes ultimately again to exclude the case of Rachish bar papa. 9:31 Lekusah literally means diseased. 9:33 To dis- to to exclude the diseased case of Rachish bar papa. 9:37 What was the What was the case of Rashi's by papa of the Yirashi? 9:40 Rashi says of Yirashi like in the short lines about I don't know, 20 lines in. 9:44 The Lukusa the Lukusa the Rashi's the Kulyah Sheina of the Ailos. 9:49 So, this was the case of the diseased kidney. 9:51 This is one of the Shev Shmaitsos of. 9:53 So, we can extract that case cuz if you notice diseased Lukusa is not one of the categories. 9:59 So, that would exclude the case of the diseased of the diseased um of the diseased kidney. 10:05 Thank you. Rashi says over again the Kulyah Sheina of the Ailos of the Ulah Alai. 10:09 Good. Fine. So, the Rashi says as follows. 10:11 Amora Kiyah Bar Abba. 10:13 So, Kiyah Bar Abba says as follows. 10:14 Khesh Shreifa Sheish B'Nikuvah. 10:16 There are eight different treifa categories that fall under this umbrella of Nikuvah of perforated. 10:22 Im Tomar Tas, my maybe you'll say ultimately again are really nine. 10:26 So, the Gemara says Mar Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Yehudah Katnila. 10:30 Ultimately again in the case of the Mar in the case of the gallbladder that ultimately Yeah, again Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Yehudah had a different list. 10:36 Sanyo cuz we learned this in the Braisa. 10:39 Nikvah Keivah, Nikvah Hadakim Treifa. 10:42 If the stomach was perforated, again Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Akiva is what Right now for our purposes right now, we're just going to refer to all of the stomachs of the animal as stomachs. 10:50 Again, obviously we'll get a little bit more into it and we will discuss the distinctions between them. 10:55 So, Nikvah Keivah, so if the stomach is perforated, Nikvah Hadakim if the intestines are perforated treifa, the animal is a treifa. 11:03 Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Yehudah Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Akiva Rebbi Yosi bar Rebbi Yehudah Omer, Af Nikvah Hamorah. 11:08 Even if the gallbladder Even if the gallbladder was perforated, that ultimately again also makes the animal a treifa. 11:15 Again, I want to say the Gemara gives gives a mnemonic over here. 11:18 Halakhos Khavar K'Zayis Marah Kurbon Siman. 11:22 So, this was also this was like a mnemonic to remember all of the following Halakhos. 11:27 You will say by the way, if you notice, I don't know that we've ever seen so many mnemonics within such a short amount of time. 11:34 Right which is very interesting but it makes a lot of sense. 11:37 Why? Because we are are dealing with a voluminous amount of information. 11:41 Right you remember again we've got at least 18 treifas going on over here but it's not really 18. 11:47 It's quite possible that it's 18 plus four plus four plus seven. 11:52 I don't know you'll do the math. 11:53 Right right so so in other words we've got we've got so because we have this and and it's and and obviously the list keeps growing. 11:59 List keeps growing. So it is interesting that the Gemara keeps bringing up these different memory mechanisms. 12:04 Okay, let's go through this list. 12:06 Halachas Kazeinis Mar Karkivan, Amram Yitzchak bar Yosef, Amram Yochana, Halacha K'Amram Yishmael b'Rabbi Yehuda. 12:12 The Halacha ultimately follows Rabbi Yossi Rabbi Yehuda. 12:16 So they want to again remember Rabbi Yossi Rabbi Yehuda just said above that what? 12:19 That if the gallbladder is perforated so that is a that is a treifa. 12:24 Okay? So now Rabbi Yitzchak bar Yosef says that the Halacha follows that the Halacha follows Rabbi Yossi Rabbi Yehuda. 12:31 But Amram Yitzchak bar Yosef, Amram Yochana, my Achai K'Rabbi Yossi Rabbi Yehuda. 12:36 Now interesting what they say so obviously this is a point of contention. 12:39 If the gallbladder was perforated does that make a does that make the animal a treifa? 12:46 Rabbi Yossi Rabbi Yehuda says yes. 12:48 Now the Gemara says what did but obviously his friends disagree with him. 12:52 So what did it how did his friends respond to this? 12:55 So what they say this is incredible. 12:56 They quote a passuk from Iyov. 12:58 What does Iyov say? 12:59 Yishpoch la'aretz right so the Gemara says over here. 13:05 So Yishpoch la'aretz marasi. 13:07 So Iyov says literally again my the my gall my gall right the liquid from the gallbladder goes ahead and and spills out to the earth which indicates to us Iyov had a perforation in his gallbladder. 13:21 And yet what? Va'adayin Iyov Kayem. 13:25 But Iyov was alive. 13:26 So what do you see from here? 13:27 What do you see from here? 13:28 That ultimately again a perforated gallbladder it doesn't make you a treifa. 13:32 That's the raya. So, I'm about to say so be also be who do would respond ain maskirin maisinison. 13:39 You can't go ahead and bring up right don't don't don't bring miracles, right? 13:43 The fact in a normal a person normally a perforated gallbladder would absolutely make a person a treifa. 13:49 But the maisa again this whole Iyov story again don't don't bring any raya from from miracles in in maskirin maisinison. 13:57 Feel the machi because if you don't agree if you don't hold of this there's a bigger problem. 14:01 What's the bigger problem again he says close over here still from Iyov you flach kilyosi v'lo yachmol. 14:07 So, literally again Iyov says my kidneys my kidneys are split and no one has compassion on me. 14:14 So, the gemara says mikachay could a person live in that state? 14:17 Ela nisa shaini. But rather again obviously what was happening to to Iyov was a miracle. 14:23 What does this mean? 14:24 Shaini the gemara says tichsav rak es nafsho shamar. 14:28 Hoch nami nisa shaini. 14:30 So, what he's saying is actually quite fascinating. 14:31 So, remember again this if if you look Rashi actually points this out over here. 14:37 When remember the whole story of Iyov which is which is such a complex and difficult to comprehend story to begin with begins with the Satan telling Hakadosh Baruchu that Iyov is not so righteous. 14:48 The reason he's righteous is because he has all these brachas. 14:51 Take away his brachas and you'll see that he won't really have his allegiance towards you. 14:56 So, Hakadosh Baruchu says to the Satan you could take away whatever you want from Iyov but not his life. 15:02 But not his life. 15:03 Rak es nafsho shamar. 15:05 Just again you can't take away his life. 15:07 So, the point over here the gemara is making is okay. 15:10 So, he has this go perforated gallbladder. 15:12 His kidneys are split open. 15:13 So, but yet he's still alive. 15:15 You can't bring a raya though from Iyov because the whole thing was miraculous. 15:20 Ain maskirin maisinison. I'll say what a what a what a tremendous you can't go ahead and just simply reflect ultimately again you can't bring up miracles. 15:30 I'll say this is this is such a in tremendously sold English cut in general a different application of it albeit not so far off about in some of our nice. 15:38 We do not rely on miracles and it's incredible that we're learning this on Arab Parshas Shlach because remember again I'll say the whole you sold the reason why Moshiach right remember Moshiach was okay with the selling of the mirakulum even 15:52 though Rashi points out the meaning of this Parshas Shlach l'cha right sent for you and Rashi says l'daatcha right if you want to send it you see send the mirakulum but yet in Moshiach says I thought it was a great 16:05 idea. Why? Because in some we don't rely on miracles because it was an understanding that that when went there it was going to be a fundamental shift within the dynamic of the Jewish people and we can no longer rely on 16:17 just provide us miraculous salvation every single time. 16:21 We have to partner with God in the actualization of our destiny a fundamental transition and this becomes a way of life for the Jew. 16:28 Do we believe that miracles could occur? 16:30 Absolutely. Do we believe that miracles do occur? 16:32 Absolutely. Do we rely on miracles to occur? 16:36 Absolutely not. In some of our nice we do not rely on miracles from we know that he could do them we know that he's absolutely able to perform them and he does perform them but at the end of the day 16:49 wants us to take the reins of life in masculine mycinness incredible Arab Parshas Shlach but we need to know how long we have to say now This is the remember again that's the covered so the is like the one who 17:05 says what what is this referring to? 17:07 But I think we got Rashi Rashi says Rashi says the says sheer beneath the covered so the Rashi Remember, if the liver is totally removed, it's a treifah. 17:21 But, if there is some part of the liver that remains, ultimately, again, it's not a treifah. 17:27 It's not a treifah. 17:28 So, I will say so remember it's not the shailos how much of the liver has to remain. 17:32 So, I'll just say something interesting. 17:34 Dr. Gabby Ordner, who's one of our one of our online one of our online left me a message that how credible it is that the Gemara understood Hazal understood that the liver is a regenerative regenerative organ. 17:46 Right? One of the only regenerative organ regenerative Am I saying that correctly? 17:50 Yeah, regenerative organs of the body, right? 17:52 And again, as long as you have some small part of the liver, the liver has the ability to regenerate, which is absolutely incredible that Hazal again, generally, Hazal's medical under right, their scientific understanding is reflective of whatever the scientific understanding 18:08 of the day was, right? 18:08 It's not When you ever you see medicine or science in the Gemara, that's not per se uniquely Jewish. 18:14 Ultimately, again, that's reflective of what they know, but yet again, there was this understanding about the unique properties of the liver. 18:21 Quite incredible. So, the Gemara goes back to the Gemara says, So, now, uh I'm sorry. 18:26 I'll read something else. 18:26 Amora de-bei Rav Halakha k'vei Amora k'zayis. 18:29 So, the halakha follows that for the liver, how much of the liver do you need to be intact in order for the animal not to be a treifah? 18:37 A k'zayis. You need a k'zayis of the liver. 18:40 Oumeima Rav Yochanan Rav Yochanan really said this? 18:42 Amora Rabbah bar bar Hana Amora Rav Yochanan Halakha k'stam Mishnah. 18:47 I, but Rabbah bar bar Hana said in the name of Rav Yochanan that the halakha follows a stam Mishnah. 18:51 What's a stam Mishnah say? 18:52 It's written in Nitla ha-kaved v'lo nishtayer mimenu klum. 18:56 Our wording of our Mishnah say? 18:58 Our Mishnah said if the liver was removed and there's no there's nothing left of the liver, then it's a treifah. 19:04 What can you infer from that? 19:06 Ha nishtayer, if there was something left over, how much has to be left over? 19:10 It sounds like it like any amount, right? 19:12 Any amount, right? In other words, it doesn't say kazayis. 19:15 As long as there's something left over, that should be enough. 19:21 Okay? So, what they say is so here's what's interesting. 19:23 Everyone is agreeing that if the liver is removed, ultimately again the animal is a treif. 19:28 And everyone is agreeing that if there's some part of the liver that's left over, the animal is not a treif. 19:33 What's the machlokes? How much of the liver do you need to have? 19:37 Is it a kazayis ultimately again or is it any amount? 19:40 Which the Gemara says, "Amora'im differ with Reish Lakish and Rabbi Yochanan." 19:43 You know, it's a machlokes Amora'im. 19:46 It's a machlokes Amora'im. 19:47 Okay, so what they say is so an interesting machlokes. 19:49 The liver is not there, treif. 19:51 As long as the liver is present, not a treif. 19:54 How much of the liver has to be intact in order for the animal not to be a treif. 19:59 Machlokes. One opinion, kazayis. 20:01 Second opinion, even a small even a any amount. 20:04 The Gemara says, "Amora'im differ with Rabbi Yochanan." 20:07 Mar Shmuel says, "It's an interesting case over here. 20:10 If the gallbladder was perforated, the kaved sos masa." 20:14 So, remember again the liver and the gallbladder are right next to each other. 20:17 So, here's an interesting case over here. 20:19 If you have a gallbladder perforation, which we established already is a treif, at least according to Rabbi Yochanan, Rabbi Yehuda. 20:24 So again, if the gallbladder is perforated, that's a treif. 20:27 What happens if the gallbladder is perforated, but it's it's perforated right in the area where the gallbladder comes up against the liver? 20:35 So, the liver effectively plugs up the hole. 20:38 Well, what's what's the status over there? 20:40 Mar Shmuel says, "The kaved sos masa ksheira." 20:43 So, tam sos masa ksheira. 20:45 Ultimately again, the animal is kosher. 20:47 It's not considered to be a treif. 20:49 Rabbi Yochanan says, "It's kosher because again, because the hole is plugged by the liver." 20:53 Rabbi Yochanan says, "It's kosher." 20:54 Rabbi Yochanan says, "It's kosher." 20:55 Rabbi Yochanan says, "It's kosher." 20:56 Nikav hakarkuvan v'kis shalo kayam kashur. 21:00 Okay, so what they say is so now switching gears over here for just a moment to to fowl. 21:05 Right? The fowl he to to to birds. 21:07 So specifically again, birds have this thing called the we'll call them, have multiple stomachs, birds also have multiple areas of digestion, which we're going to get into not today as much, but in my session over the weekend. 21:21 So an animal has something called the cork upon. 21:23 Cork upon translates as gizzard. 21:26 This is a secondary stomach where food is further digested. 21:31 So again, so we'll say so what happens if the cork upon now the cork upon itself has a kiss, what we'll call an inner pouch. 21:38 What happens ultimately again if the cork upon Nikkei back cork upon if the cork upon is is is perforated, the kiss shallow kayam, but the inner pouch is totally intact. 21:49 What's the halacha? Kosher. 21:51 Ultimately again, the animal is going to be kosher. 21:54 E by lose the master kosher. 21:55 Nikkei back kiss the cork upon kayam. 21:58 If ultimately again, the inner what what if the inner pouch was perforated, but the cork upon itself, the gizzard itself is still intact. 22:06 My, what is the halacha? 22:08 So Tushma the Amra Nachman Nikkei below that kosher. 22:12 So Nachman says essentially in order for the animal to be a treifa, both of the cork upon and the kiss, so both the gizzard and the inner pouch, both have to be perforated. 22:21 What if they're not both perforated, the animal is kosher. 22:24 Amra Rabba. Rabba says this is also a very interesting case over here. 22:28 Shnei oros yesh lo l'vashet. 22:31 So the vashet, so we'll say the esophagus, the esophagus actually has Shnei oros means two skins. 22:36 Really what it means is two layers. 22:38 There's two layers to the esophagus. 22:40 Ets'o adom, the outer layer is red, u'pnimi lavan, and the inner layer is white. 22:47 So the Gemara says listen to this. 22:48 Nikkei below that kosher. 22:51 Ultimately again, and if one is perforated without the other, the the the animal is going to be kosher. 22:57 So we'll say say interestingly enough, halacha l'maisa, and apparently in order for Now remember, this was the big distinction between the koner and the vesha, between the trachea and the esophagus. 23:06 Trachea, it could even be split up to halfway, and the animal's still totally kosher. 23:12 With the esophagus, with the vesha, any amount of perforation ultimately goes ahead and renders the animal a treif, a very important distinction. 23:20 Now, however, when it comes to esophageal perforation, that is only problematic if halach l'maisa both layers, the outer layer and the inner layer are both perforated. 23:31 And again, that outer layer, that outer layer is red, the inner layer is white. 23:36 Nikvei tz'va'ot zeh kasher. 23:38 So, the Gemara says, "L'ma li l'meimar chitzon adom p'nimi lavan?" 23:42 So, first of all, why do you have to In other words, what is it Why are you telling me that the outer one is red and the inner one is white? 23:51 So, the Gemara says, "I'll tell you why. 23:52 B'chul ha'treifa, because he checked an animal, you open it up, and you see the opposite, right? 23:57 That the outer one is white and the inner one is red, that's a treifa. 24:01 Okay." Say by him, "So, we'll see interesting case over here. 24:04 Nikvu shnei hem zeh shelo k'neged zeh, mahu?" 24:08 So, we'll see Listen to this interesting case, horses. 24:10 Now, we've established as a sala law, really, we're picking up just a ton of very interesting information. 24:14 So, you have the esophagus, two different layers of the esophagus, outer one red, inner one white. 24:20 In order for the animal to be a treifa, both layers have to be perforated. 24:24 Now, the Gemara asks an interesting question. 24:26 What happens if both layers are perforated, but they're not perforated in the same spot, right? 24:31 So, in in a classic case of esophageal perforation, obviously, the you've just got a hole that goes straight through, right? 24:48 That That's the way it works. 24:51 Shailos, what happens if you have both the outer layer and the inner layer perforated, but they're not perforated in the same area. 24:58 So, what what whatever you can buy the Where can you Well, you can have a case like this in a variety of directions which we'll discuss. 25:04 But again, let's say the outer layer is is perforated a little bit higher and the inner layer is perforated a little bit lower. 25:10 So, what's interesting about this case? 25:12 There is perforation on both layers, but it's not classic as they're both they're not lined up. 25:18 So, what what do we do in a case like that? 25:21 Very interesting case. The Gemara says, "Mekevs I'm sorry. 25:25 Uh I by the way Mekevs shnayim shelo keneged Mekevs shnayim zeh shelo keneged zeh mahu? 25:30 What is the halakha?" 25:32 So, the Gemara says, "Amar Mar Zutra mi-Shmei de-Rabba Papa Sura Amar Mar Zutra she-Amar Rabba Papa, "Be-veshet kasher, be-korkevan pasul." 25:39 They're going to both say Now, remember there's two cases that we just saw that require two layers of perforation. 25:45 What were the What were the two cases? 25:47 Number one, the veshet, the esophagus. 25:49 You have to have perforation of both the outer the outer red layer and the inner white layer. 25:55 And the other case where you need dual perforation is where? 25:58 By the gizzard. Right? 26:00 By the korkeban. Because there you need the outer layer and the inner pouch both to be perforated as well. 26:05 So, this question this question of what happens if you have perforation on the inner and outer layer, but they're not aligned applies to both of these cases, the esophagus as well as the korkeban, the gizzard. 26:16 So, the Gemara says Therefore, the Gemara answers, "Amar Mar Zutra mi-Shmei de-Rabba Papa, "Be-veshet kasher, be-korkeban pasul." 26:23 This is very interesting. 26:25 So, Mar Zutra she-Amar Rabba Papa, "In an esophagus, in the in the veshet, it's going to be kasher." 26:30 Whereas, if the two layer if the two layers of perforation do not align up with each other, that doesn't make the animal a treif. 26:36 The animal is not a treif. 26:37 The animal is kasher. 26:38 But in a korkeban, in the gizzard, ultimately again it's going to be pasul. 26:44 It's going to be pasul. 26:45 So, if you look at Rashi for just a moment, Rashi says "Avery korkeban pasul." 26:49 He says say interesting. 26:51 So, I'm going to say this is two four, six lines up from the bottom. 26:53 Why why is it also the cork? 26:55 He wants to listen to this. 27:02 So we'll say remember again, what's the big difference between the esophagus and and the gizzard? 27:07 So on a very basic level, food does not collect in the esophagus, right? 27:13 It just it just goes down. 27:15 It's just a pipeway. 27:16 As opposed to the gizzard, ultimately again, where halacha remains, the food does collect. 27:21 It remains there for some amount of time. 27:23 So the Mishna says something very interesting. 27:24 Therefore, if you have ultimately again, whatever holes you have in the cork of an even if they're not aligned, what's going to end up happening is the food is going to end up exiting the gizzard where wherever it can, wherever 27:36 it can, wherever there are holes. 27:37 Therefore, even if the holes are not aligned, the animal is still going to be a treifa. 27:41 As opposed to the cona, as opposed to the veshet as seen by the esophagus, the only time we're going to run into a problem is when the two perforations are aligned. 27:48 But if they're not aligned because the esophagus is just a pass-through entity, therefore again, the the food technically speaking will not go out into other parts of the body. 27:57 Interesting distinction. So Maski Rav Rav Ashi, Rav Ashi says I would have expected just the opposite. 28:08 Zinin dimin zarin bahadi adadi. 28:12 It's very interesting. So Rav Ashi says I would have expected just the opposite, right? 28:15 So the veshet, where food passes through, right? 28:18 Ultimately again, it it it expands. 28:21 And when it expands, ultimately again, what could happen? 28:25 It's possible when it expands that the two layers of perforation would align with each other. 28:30 See, even though you call it when when the animal is in a state of esophageal rest, right? 28:36 So if again, the two perforations are not aligned, when the animal is eating or moving or breathing, it's possible that it expands, and therefore the two holes could align. 28:46 Okay? However, korkeban d'me nach naich k'dei kaikai. 28:50 but the Karkuvan which is at rest and the Karkuvan is in that even though again I will say the whole club of the Karkuvan the gizzard is made up of multiple muscles which aid in digesting of the food but it's 29:00 a it's a stationary entity. 29:02 So therefore because of that if the holes are in if the preparations are in two different places they'll never align. 29:08 Okay, so the master's Karkuvan the main knife to the I will say what a what a profound statement. 29:14 profound statements, right? Karkuvan like anything else in life the main knife if it stays in place it'll be what it'll be. 29:24 In life again if you if you choose ultimately again the main knife you choose to rest you choose to go into sleep mode you choose not to move one thing is clear which is you will stay exactly where you are 29:38 I'm going to I'm going to you'll see the actual I mean we should do such a Dharma Papa Kaba say. 29:44 So they said the name of a Papa like you. 29:46 I'm going to okay I'm going to say I'm going to say to I'm going to say interesting case here. 29:50 Karkuvan Allah make a in a crumb. 29:53 So what is this listen to this? 29:54 So let's know what do we established? 29:56 We established that my soul any perforation any perforation I will say by the way just the I should just the conclusion of that tomorrow right the conclusion ultimately again of that tomorrow was like the statement of Rav Ashi. 30:11 What is the statement of Rav Ashi that my soul that that if you have a veshet that has if you have an esophagus that is perforated in two separate areas I will call my soul that will still make it into 30:22 a treifa because again it's possible for the two areas to align the two perforations to align when there is when when there is esophageal movement. 30:31 However, again in the gizzard if the two layers of perforation do not align the animal will not be a treifa. 30:36 Okay, interesting. I'm going to say I'm going to say I'm going to say now remember let's go back to the other a second when it comes to the esophagus, so what happens will call my soul again if there is a 30:45 perforation in the esophagus? 30:46 What's the treif? Right, any amount of perforation in the esophagus ultimately makes the animal into a treif. 30:53 So the So what happens if it scabs? 30:56 And obviously what happened over here, the animal had a perforation in its esophagus and the perforation scabbed over. 31:02 That's a chrome. Chrome Allah my God if you had an injury in the and then it scabbed over in a chrome. 31:10 It's not a The scab doesn't matter. 31:12 Essentially the scab is halakhically inconsequential. 31:16 In which means that what? 31:18 This is an animal with a perforated esophagus and the definition or the status of an animal with a perforated esophagus is treif. 31:25 Look at your just a moment. 31:26 In a chrome, take a look three lines up from the bottom. 31:29 In a chrome it says, "If the system after the esophagus was perforated even if there was a very thick scab on it, it ultimately again it is not going to endure. 31:44 So the fact that I would have thought that maybe once it scabs over, this is now an indication that the that the perforation is no longer problematic. 31:53 Come on, no a scab on an esophageal perforation does not take away the treif status." 32:00 The rabbi said, "The only way to inspect is very interesting. 32:05 Furthermore the rabbi said, "The only way to inspect, right? 32:08 After you check the animal, you have to inspect the right? 32:11 Why do you have to right? 32:12 You have Why do you have to inspect the esophagus to make sure that it's not perforated? 32:16 You cannot inspect the esophagus from the outside. 32:20 You can only inspect it from inside the esophagus." 32:23 Now the says, "The main I will say now by the way, why is that? 32:27 Now remember all these pieces of information are linked to each other. 32:30 Why? We said how many layers does the esophagus have? 32:33 How many layers? Two layers. 32:34 Coloration of the two layers? 32:36 Outside red, inside, white. 32:39 How do you know if the esophagus is perforated? 32:42 Well, the way to see it is on the white side, you would see a red dot. 32:47 You would see that's how you would see ultimately again esophageal perforation. 32:52 Now, obviously, you can't see that you can't see that on the out on the outer layer, which is red. 32:57 Therefore, the only way to see if there is in a perforation is on the inner white side. 33:03 Incredible. So, therefore, the only way to check for esophageal perforation ultimately is is I hope somebody's keeping count just the number of times I'm using the word, right? 33:11 Right? It should be like an over under on this. 33:13 So, let's uh let's uh start a separate WhatsApp group. 33:15 Right? So, so, so, so, the nice uh so, the nice again, the only way to check it ultimately again is from the inside of the veshet itself. 33:23 Incredible. The mind nafkaminah. 33:25 So, the mind says, "Okay, what's the nafkaminah over here?" 33:27 I'm with the And I say, "By the way, before you turn the page, just look at that last Rashi in because the outer layer of the esophagus is red the ain't he passed down the keras ball and you can't see 33:40 any drop of blood, right? 33:41 The interest that's the way you would see the perforation is you would see some type of drop of blood. 33:45 You can see on the inside can't see anything inside. 33:47 You might have a mind nafkaminah. 33:48 I'm a base 43B the safek drusa. 33:52 So, what I say so, this this matters ultimately again in a case of safek drusa. 33:56 Take a look at Rashi. 33:57 The safek drusa. Keep going to eat look at the common the inhu kamakaturun. 34:05 The min common drusa shamu. 34:08 The in asura she yadin halas. 34:10 So, what I say so, again, we're going to see this case that if I say you have an animal that you're fear that you're fearful may have been attacked and clawed by another animal, right? 34:18 And remember the issue with the clawing is we'll discuss is at least from the mission's perspective, let's say a wolf will often have venom, right? 34:26 In its in its claws. 34:27 So, the concern was did something get into our other our victim animal making it a treifah. 34:32 So, sometimes the way if let's say the animal got clawed by the neck, the way you would want to see is you would check the veshet. 34:38 So, this is important. 34:39 So, you would check the veshet on the inside to see if there was any level of perforation. 34:43 Incredible. How he safek drusa side of the coming to rabba. 34:47 Supposed to listen to this case. 34:48 Interesting case over here. 34:49 So, there was this case of safek drusa. 34:50 So, again we'll say safek drusa is a case of an animal that we think may have been attacked and clawed by an attacking animal. 35:00 concern is did the animal if the if the victim animal was clawed by the aggressor animal, is there some concern that maybe some venom was injected into the victim animal and that the victim animal ultimately again is a treif. 35:13 So, if we see that this happened around the neck area, what are we going to do? 35:17 We're going to check the animal. 35:19 We're going to take out the veshet. 35:20 We're going to take out the esophagus. 35:22 We're going to open it up and we're going to go ahead and inspect the the white interior of the esophagus to see is there any level of perforation. 35:31 So, the mar tells a story how he safek drusa side of the coming to rabba. 35:36 There was this case of a safek drusa animal that came up with rabba. 35:40 Hava kavod dikli rabba devesha me avrayi. 35:42 Rabba was inspecting the esophagus from the outside. 35:46 Amora Abayi Abayi said one second. 35:48 Vaha mar hu de amar veshet el abedika el ami bifnim de rabi. 35:52 You're the one who told us that you can only check the veshet from the inside. 35:57 So, afki rabba ubati kay. 35:59 So, rabba went ahead and he flipped uh he flipped the esophagus inside out and he checked it like that. 36:04 Vishtakhikh alei tre karte dama vetarfa. 36:07 And he found on the white interior of the esophagus two droplets of large red, two small red areas, and he declared the animal a treif. 36:16 So, the mar says, "Okay, so this is interesting. 36:18 So, why did rabba check from the outside? 36:20 Why wasn't he checking on the inside?" 36:21 But rabba nami likha dudei la Abayi udebaye. 36:25 So, rabba was like, "Oh, I'm just testing you. 36:27 I'm just testing you, right?" 36:28 See, he was doing what he was saying he was saying in tomorrow very often. 36:31 That sometimes again, you find that teachers would go ahead and just in practice set things up in a certain way to make sure the students were paying attention. 36:39 So, Rab was trying to sharpen Abaye a little bit. 36:42 Okay, fine. Amram Ulla. 36:44 Ulla is an interesting case of a Yeshiva Lakot B'vesha. 36:48 >> [clears throat] >> Interesting case. So, let's say there was a thorn. 36:52 Literally, Yeshiva Lakot means let's say a thorn settled in the esophagus of the animal. 36:57 Look at Rashi. Yeshiva Lakot Rashi's like almost right across. 37:01 Go to the left and about five lines down. 37:03 Yeshiva Lakot K'gon Sha'ahal Kotz V'necht Davar Socha B'vesha V'ein Oni Eran Hakvasim V'hakotz V'korit Dam In B'vifim. 37:11 So, this is an interesting case. 37:13 So, in this case over here, you check the animal, you open up you open up the you open up the esophagus. 37:18 And what do you find inside the esophagus? 37:20 You find a thorn. 37:22 Now, you don't see any perforations. 37:25 Right? So, there's no perforations and there's no red spots ultimately again on the in white interior of the esophagus. 37:33 So, Rab will say, "So, now what do we So, what what's what's intriguing about this case? 37:37 On one hand, there's no physical evidence that there was any level of perforation. 37:42 But, what should we be concerned about?" 37:44 So, Amram says In Chosheshin Shema Hevri. 37:46 So, what Here's what I could be concerned about. 37:48 Maybe maybe there was Maybe the animal Maybe the esophagus was perforated and it healed It scabbed over and I just can't see it. 37:55 Then Amram will say again, "What's the status or what what's the status of an esophageal scab?" 38:00 Right? Doesn't work. It's a treifa. 38:02 It doesn't mean anything. 38:03 So, I I might have thought that if I find a thorn inside the esophagus that Halacha L'ma'aseh have to assume that even though I can't see a perforation, there must have been a perforation and it scabbed over. 38:13 K'mash Malan like so many times we learn, if there's not a problem, don't make one. 38:19 Right? So, therefore again Halacha L'ma'aseh, okay, I got it there's a thorn in there, but if I don't see any physical evidence of a perforation. 38:26 I do not have to make any assumption that a perforation occurred. 38:29 Incredible. So the says well the my according to why is this case any different than a Jewess was remember again essentially what we have over here when you find the thorn inside inside the esophagus is a now you know what 38:47 say for example we had the case of Jewess at the Jewess a case ultimately again where there is a possibility that the animal was caught by another animal yet to wear a in that case. 38:57 So why is why is the case of the thorn inside the esophagus any different than Jewess so they and what you like I happen to agree with you we're not for something Jewess at the end of the day will say 39:10 again there's only a problem if you see a problem but if there's not a problem do not create a problem or my but what about the following case now essentially what this is very interesting because it's like this even though 39:25 finding a thorn inside of the esophagus should give us pause should give us pause yet says if you don't see a problem you don't see a perforation don't you don't have to assume anything in the animals totally kosher or trying 39:40 to do with is going to raise a series of different questions that seem to indicate that in cases of we are so for example what about the following case of what about the case of the two pieces of meat one 39:56 is forbidden and one is again remember again what's I ate one of them and what and what and I don't know I don't know which one I ate I don't know which one I ate right what's you bring in so 40:12 I don't understand the same way that in this case of you have to bring your carbon why not say that if you find the thorn inside of the vessel, that should be a safek safek treifa as well? 40:21 To which the Gemara says To which the Gemara says, "Ah, hasam is hazakisura. 40:27 It's different over there. 40:28 Why is it different over there? 40:29 Because halacha l'maaseh, because halacha l'maaseh, you know that you have issur. 40:33 There is a piece of shuman over there, right? 40:34 Because there there is there is issur that's present, and I know that I ate something, I'm just not sure what I ate." 40:40 Okay, as I can distinguish, "Umashna meashochek besakin l'misa b'guma." 40:45 So, what about say, what about the case ultimately again of you shecht an animal, and then after the fact you find that the knife is pagum? 40:52 Right? The knife is damaged. 40:54 So, what's the halacha in a case like that? 40:55 The animal is in a veila. 40:58 So, what about say, what about that case? 40:59 Has So, again, there's a case of safek, and yet again we rule it assur. 41:04 Hasam is yalid l'reius besakin. 41:06 It's different there. What's different? 41:08 Because what about say, once again, right in front of you you have a problem with the knife. 41:12 Right now, the knife is nikt. 41:13 I got it. In this case, it happens to mean that you checked the knife before shechita, but yet right now the knife is nikt. 41:19 There's a problem right in front of us. 41:21 That's different than our case. 41:22 Right now, there is a thorn inside of the esophagus. 41:25 Do I see a problem? 41:26 Do I see a problem? 41:27 I don't I see a potential problem, but there's no actual problem in front of me. 41:31 Therefore, you can be meikal. 41:32 Umashna misafek tumah b'reshus hayachid. 41:34 This sfek tumah What about the case of safek tumah b'reshus hayachid? 41:38 We're again going to say you have a safek tumah that takes place in a private domain. 41:41 What's the halacha? What's the halacha? 41:43 Sfek tumah machmir. Machmir? 41:46 Well, the tamei, but using this logic, n'daniyei l'safek tumah b'reshus harabim this sfek tahor. 41:51 You could just as easily compare it to a case of safek tumah b'reshus harabim. 41:54 What's the halacha of sfek tumah b'reshus harabim? 41:56 Halacha l'maaseh, sfek tahor. 41:58 Ah, l'hasam chok k'seder g'milus chasadim. 42:00 Okay, so what about say, something like that? 42:02 Just says, "By the way, let's just leave out the mintara, which we're all happy to do." 42:06 Right? All right, let's just leave out the mintara. 42:07 Why? Because the halacha of what about say, if safek tumah b'reshus hayachid, safek tumah b'reshus harabim, we finish many times our journeys in shul It's a unique I'll learn out from sota. 42:18 Right from sota we learn that any case of doubtful tumor in a private domain or we're not here it's to me and any something to my bishop's eye again in a public domain all to me again is going to be 42:31 motor. So you have to have a home coming to have kind of say for myself. 42:35 It turns out so that you might we're not finished yet but right now the statement of all of remains intact. 42:40 Therefore, you open up the esophagus of the animal, you find a thorn in there. 42:45 I say to myself, oh, that's problematic. 42:47 Perhaps I should be concerned that there was a perforation but the perforation scabbed over. 42:51 But a sophagial scabbing is not relevant. 42:55 It doesn't help and maybe the animal should be a treifa. 42:57 I'm not sure Allah says if you don't see a problem, don't make a problem. 43:01 So there's no there's no perforation. 43:03 If you don't see a perforation, there's no reason to assume that there was a perforation. 43:07 Incredible. So let's go back there. 43:10 Says the Gamar, says the Gamar you have to have a home coming to have kind of say for myself. 43:14 The other one of the comers so there was one of one of the rabbis was sitting in front of the corner and he was sitting and saying the following. 43:19 Nimsays similar to Nimsays it more. 43:21 What's the case of the thorn? 43:23 The case of the thorn is only a local Mesa when you find the thorn inside of the esophagus as opposed to a by your shelf but if the thorn ultimately again is embedded. 43:34 So you have to have this distinction between Nimsays means it's found. 43:38 Your shelf ultimately means like it's sitting there. 43:41 Now interestingly enough with that coming in is it could be sitting there like almost like a stickle embedded without making a perforation. 43:49 Right? But a but a little bit more quality lodged in there. 43:53 A by your shelf but if it's a bit more embedded, a local Mesa a local Mesa you would have says a Nimsays it more below table. 44:01 So again, when do we say the thorn is not a problem? 44:03 Only if you find it in there but it's not embedded. 44:06 However again, a local Mesa if you find the thorn embedded, even though you can't really see a perforation, perhaps we have to be concerned that there was a perforation and it scabbed over. 44:20 Don't listen to him. 44:21 It's not true. It's not true. 44:21 It's not true. Even if the thorn was embedded, if you don't see a perforation, you do not have to assume that there was a perforation that scabbed over. 44:31 I don't mean to say it's directly the rule of But you don't want to say in the case of everyone agrees that the animal is fine. 44:40 If you go ahead and you open up the esophagus and you find a thorn just kind of I don't know like in there, just in there, not embedded but just present there. 44:49 Everyone agrees that's not a problem. 44:51 Why? Someone says the cool but I say the ultimate cuz all the animals say because I say all all three range animals. 45:01 And by the way, it's not just free range animals. 45:02 Cuz all you got to say that any any animals that graze, ultimately again Rashi says but after but after any animals that are grazing in pasture, they are inevitably going to what? 45:16 Ingest thorns. So therefore you know what I'm saying what comes out of this thing very interesting that I don't know what I'm saying I don't know what I'm saying I suggest that that the case of the case of the case 45:28 of the thorn that's just sitting there, everyone agrees it's totally not problematic. 45:32 But more than that, even if you find the thorn a bit embedded in the vest, as long as there is no perforation, you're good to go. 45:41 The animals The animals totally kosher and you don't have to be concerned that maybe there was a perforation that ultimately again scabbed over. 45:47 Incredible. It's my turn about to have a shot. 45:50 So what I'm saying one one last case. 45:52 What is this case? 45:53 Now again I will say a little bit again Rashi says it's the top of the esophagus. 45:59 This is the top of the esophagus, the very top of the esophagus that ultimately again is attached to the jaw. 46:06 So this is what we're going to call it. 46:07 Tarbut havesha'at. So what So what says the now here's the shaila. 46:12 The shaila is The shaila is and that that's not usually the area where you're shacting, right? 46:17 Because that's higher. That's higher up on the animal. 46:19 So the shaila is Do the halachas of Now what have we established? 46:23 Any level of perforation in the esophagus renders the animal a treifa. 46:28 The shaila is if the perforation was that high, what we call the tarbuts, the area where it's attached to the jaw, does that make the animal a treifa or not? 46:35 So Rav Amar bar Amram Ashu, so Rav says even any amount on there still any amount of esophageal perforation will make it a treifa. 46:42 U'Shmuel Amar bar Amram Shmuel says no, it's got to be the majority. 46:45 The majority of that area has to be perforated in order for it to be problematic. 46:49 I says again Amar Rav bar Amram Ashu, Rav says any amount. 46:53 Makom Shchito, cuz Rav says technically speaking you can't, even though the animal's not normally shacted there, you can shact there. 47:00 And therefore again it's governed by the regular halachas. 47:02 U'Shmuel Amar bar Amram Shmuel says the majority lav makom shchito. 47:07 That is not the proper place ultimately again for shchita. 47:11 So because it's not the proper place for shchita, therefore halacha l'maaseh, it doesn't cause any problems. 47:15 He knew tarbut havesha'at. 47:16 What is the place ultimately again of the tarbut havesha'at? 47:19 Amar Mar bar Amram U'Shmuel Kol she chotcho u'marchiv zeh tarbut havesha'at. 47:25 Tarbuts is very interesting. 47:26 So the tarbut havesha'at is any place ultimately again where when you cut the esophagus, the esophagus itself widens. 47:35 We're going to see, depending on where you cut the esophagus, sometimes the esophagus will widen and sometimes it will contract. 47:43 So if you cut it in an area where it widens and expa- expands, that's the tarbuts. 47:48 That's the tarbuts. Ultimately again that's the tarbut havesha'at. 47:51 Kol she chotcho b'makom komo zeh veshet atzmo. 47:55 If you go ahead and you cut it and it kind of remains remains the same, that's what we call that's the veshet atzmo. 48:02 So, again, just an interesting siman. 48:04 If you If you know, again, obviously the torbus of veshet is just defined as the upper area of the esophagus, which is juxtaposed to the jaw, but now they're giving us a different almost like another siman. 48:15 A area if you cut it and it contracts, that's the torbus. 48:19 If you cut it and it expands, ultimately again, that's the veshet itself. 48:22 Okay, we'll say we'll have to stop over here for today. 48:25 Shkoyach. What a what a daf. 48:26 What an incredible daf. 48:28 Okay, we'll continue We're not By the way, we're not finished with torbus of veshet. 48:31 There's still more still more to come in Hashem. 48:34 Continue tomorrow. We'll say shkoyach. 48:38 Everyone have a great Shabbos, everyone. 48:40 Have a good Shabbos.
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