Transcript Translit עברית
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0:02 All right Rabosai, good morning, good morning. 0:18 Let us begin, begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning's shiur, to thank our Talmud Torah sponsors for the month of Av Haba aleinu l'tova, Mel and Karen Rom for dedicating all the shiurim and drashos this month as a zchus for a 0:31 Refuah Sheleima for Eliyazer ben Elisheva, Azriel and Iris Miller and Adam and Dr. 0:37 Leslie Miller for sponsoring all the shiurim and drashos this month l'ilui nishmas Dr. 0:41 Joseph Miller, חיים יוסף בן ראובן zichrono l'vracha, friends of יצחק אלחנן בן פערל לאה in the zchus of a Refuah Sheleima, Yossi and Malka Cohen in memory of Rabbi Dr. 0:52 Nachman Shorr, הרב נחמן בן רב חיים יהושע הלוי. Our week of learning sponsors: Ari Braunstein in the Blue Kangaroo Packouts team, incredible who provided service to the Silber family, Baruch Hashem, when our recent basement flooding, Baruch Hashem, apparently donated some of the proceeds back to the shul, Baruch Hashem. 1:13 Thank you to the Blue Kangaroo Packouts team. 1:15 Our Daf Yomi sponsors for today: Eyal and Sarah Steinberg in the zchus of continued hatzlacha Chana bas Shushan for an ultimate Refuah Sheleima, and Paul and Kathy Polick in commemoration of the Yartzeit on Rosh Chodesh Av of Aharon HaKohen, אהרון בן עמרם הכהן and his son אלעזר בן אהרון הכהן. 1:35 At this moment more than ever we need individuals like Aharon who can bring peace between all of Klal Yisrael. Rabosai, we hope that in the merit of our Talmud Torah all of the neshamos have an aliyah, the families nechama, all those who need 1:46 Refuahs together with chol holei Yisrael, Hakadosh Baruch Hu should be'ezras Hashem look after our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael, allow our holy soldiers to be successful be'chol ma'aseh yadeihem, and we should be zocheh be'ezras Hashem to brachos and besoros tovos. Rabosai, with that, let us begin. 1:59 We have a lot to do today plus I'd love to be able to finish the perek today, but okay, that might be a bit too ambitious, but be'ezras Hashem also we always owe the IOU the halacha on ben pakua which I hope 2:09 to be able to do today as we close out the perek. 2:11 So Rabosai, we are picking up be'ezras Hashem on today's Daf is Ayin Zayin 77. 2:16 We are picking up on עין ו עמוד ב 76B, and we left off, we left off on the first wide line Rabosai, remember again just a few lines beforehand we had a fundamental machlokes between Rav and Shmuel. 2:33 In the Mishna, the Mishna made a distinction between an animal that had an injury lemalah min ha'arkuvah and lematah min ha'arkuvah, above the joint, below the joint. 2:40 We then subsequently had a machlokes in terms of which joint are we talking about, upper joints, lower joints, so a whole chulent of machlokes that was happening over there. 2:51 Rav went ahead and said, Rav just said above that halacha l'maaseh lemalah min ha'arkuvah if ultimately again this now, this is transitioning now to the second case in the Mishna, which is if the bone broke and went ahead and tore through the flesh. 3:05 The Mishna said if the majority of the flesh is intact the animal is kosher, majority of the flesh is missing or torn the animal is a treifah. 3:15 So Rav said, Rav said before lemalah min ha'arkuvah, again if the tear is above the arkuvah, if the majority of the flesh is intact, then halacha l'maaseh both the limb as well as the animal are mutter. 3:27 And if not, both are assur. 3:30 Below the arkuvah, if the majority of the flesh is intact, both are mutter, and if not, ultimately again the limb is assur but the animal is going to be mutter. 3:39 Shmuel said whether, whether we're talking about above or below the arkuvah, if the majority of the basar is intact then ultimately again both are mutter, both meaning the limb and the animal, and if not, meaning if the majority of the 3:55 flesh is not intact, the limb will be assur but the behema will be mutter. 3:59 Incredible. So now the Gemara says איבר ממנה מוטל באשפה מותרת? 4:04 Could it be that ultimately again we have a situation of where the limb will be assur but the rest of the animal is mutter? 4:10 Literally the limb is in the ashpah, in the garbage dump, and the animal is going to be mutter? 4:14 אמר ליה רב אחא בר פונא לרב נחמן: l'Rav nami yomru איבר ממנה מוטל באשפה מותרת? Again that's not just a shaileh on Shmuel, that's also a shaileh on shitas Rav because Rav also has a case like this where technically speaking the limb would be assur but the rest of the animal would be 4:28 mutter. אמר ליה הכי קאמינא: this is what I mean to say: איבר שחיה ממנה מוטל באשפה מותרת? 4:32 Could it be a limb that is considered to be necessary for the ongoing life of the animal is going to be disqualified, is going to be literally thrown into the garbage dump, and the rest of the animal is going to 4:45 be mutter? שלחו מתם הלכתא כוותיה דרב. So Rabosai, so at first they said that the halacha follows Rav in this machlokes, Rav and Shmuel. 4:54 הדר שלחו כוותיה דשמואל. Afterwards they said no, the halacha follows Shmuel. 4:58 הדר שלחו כוותיה דרב. Afterwards they went ahead and they sent once again no, the halacha follows Rav, ואבר עצמו מטמא במשא. 5:06 But the eiver itself, again talking about it remember, oh so according to Rav, according to Rav, halacha le-maiseh again, if the majority of the flesh is not intact, whether again the tear was above the arkuva, below the arkuva, ultimately again what 5:20 I should say differently. 5:21 According to Rav, if it's above the arkuva, if the majority of the flesh is intact, both are mutar. 5:25 If not, both are going to be assur. Lematta min ha-arkuva, if the majority of the flesh is intact once again both are mutar and if not, the eiver is assur and the animal is mutar. 5:37 But again now they said that according to Rav, in cases where the eiver ultimately again is going to be assur, it's metamei bemassa. Metamei bemassa means what? 5:46 Again translation, what type of tumah? Tumas neveilah. Tumas neveilah. 5:49 So masvei Rav Chisda, so Rav Chisda went ahead and raised the kasha lo, אם תירה שחיטת טריפה אותה ואת אבר המדולדל בה. 6:06 Davar shebe-gufo, titar es ha-uber, davar she-eino gufo? Amar lei Rava, Rava says, הדורי אפריכי למה לך איתי ממתניתין. 6:10 So Rava said why are you bringing up, why are you bringing up kashas from more obscure sources? 6:19 Why not go ahead and bring up kashas from mishnayos? 6:25 After all we learned, נשחטה בהמה הוכשרה בדמיה דברי רבי מאיר. 6:27 That if you shacht the animal, ultimately again it becomes huchshar lekabel tumah with its own blood. 6:42 That's Rabbi Meir. Rabbi Shimon, Rabbi Shimon says, lo huchshara. Amar lei אמר ליה מתניתין איכא לדחויי כדידחנין. 6:46 No you can't go ahead and bring a rayah from that mishna why? 6:54 Because that mishna can be set aside as in fact it was set aside earlier. 6:59 Fine. כי סליק רבי זירא. And Rabbi Zeira went to Eretz Yisrael, אשכחיה לרבי ירמיה דיתיב וקאמר לה להא שמעתא. 7:08 So he found Rabbi Yirmiyah and Rabbi Yirmiyah was espousing the position of Rav. 7:18 As Rav said before in the machlokes Rav and Shmuel. 7:20 Amar lei, yashar shkoiyach, because indeed we said before rabosai, the Gemara already indicated itself that the halacha follows Rav. 7:39 וכן תירגם אריוך בבבל. And this is how Arioch also paskin in Bavel. 7:47 Arioch manu? Shmuel. So the Gemara says who's that who's that Shmuel? 7:53 That was a, that was a complimentary term. 7:56 Arioch means like a, like a lion, like an aryeh. 7:58 So who was that? 7:59 That was Shmuel. Veha miflag palig. 8:01 But one second, Shmuel himself was the one who disputed Rav? 8:06 To which the Gemara says, הדר ביה שמואל לגבי דרב. 8:08 Shmuel ultimately recanted his position and ended up agreeing with Rav. 8:13 Incredible. Tanu rabanan. So let's go weiter. 8:16 נשבר העצם ויצא לחוץ. So rabosai this is the case of the mishna that we're dealing with now in the braisa as well. 8:21 An animal broke its bone and the bone, the bone is protruding outside of the flesh. 8:25 So remember again, the mishna gave a rule. 8:28 What's the rule? If the majority of the flesh is still intact, the animal is kosher. 8:33 If the majority of the flesh is missing, the animal is a treifa. 8:37 That's the rule. Obviously as we've already seen, the, the complication comes in where is the break, right? 8:44 Above the joint, below the joint, which joints are we talking about? 8:47 That's where all the machlokes sets in. 8:50 So let's go weiter. 8:51 נשבר העצם ויצא לחוץ. So if the bone broke and the bone is extruding, extruding, sorry, the bone is, the bone is sticking out protruding outside of the flesh, אם עור ובשר חופין את רובו מותר ואם לאו אסור. 9:04 Okay so rabosai if you notice, the lashon over here is a little bit different. 9:07 It says im or. Or means the hide, right? 9:10 If the hide and the bassar are covering it, right? 9:13 Covering the majority of the area, it's mutar and if not the animal is considered to be a treifa and it's assur. 9:21 Okay so the Gemara says, ve-kama rubo? 9:23 How much is the majority? 9:25 How much is that? 9:26 כי אתא רב דימי אמר רבי יוחנן, rov ovyo, ואמרי לה רוב היקיפו. Some say it's the majority of the thickness and some say the majority of the circumference. 9:35 And the Gemara says, אמר רב פפא הלכך בעינן רוב עוביו ובעינן רוב היקיפו. 9:38 Therefore halacha le-maiseh in this particular situation, we require both the majority of the circumference as well as the majority, as well as the majority of the, as well as the majority of the thickness. 9:53 Incredible. אמר עולא אמר רבי יוחנן, עור הרי הוא כבשר. So rabosai I just want to point out what's interesting over here. 9:59 In our mishna, in our mishna... 10:01 The Mishnah only spoke about rov basar, not or. 10:05 And this is a very important distinction because often we use this interchangeably. 10:08 Basar means the flesh, or means the hide. 10:11 So now the Braisa is introducing to us that by the way, you could utilize hide in this situation also. 10:17 So now look what the Braisa says. 10:19 אמר עולא אמר רבי יוחנן עור הרי הוא כבשר. The hide is like the flesh. 10:23 So therefore, if you have breakage and you have bone protrusion, if even if there's not flesh that's there, but there's hide that is there, that can go ahead and save the day. 10:33 אמר ליה רב נחמן לעולא. So Rav Nachman said to Ulla, ולימא מר עור מצטרף לבשר דהא עור ובשר קתני. 10:43 Why don't you just say that the or, the hide, combines with the flesh in order to create the majority. 10:48 Again rabosai, remember again, what are we looking for? 10:50 What are we looking for? 10:50 When you have bone breakage and bone protrusion, we're looking for something very simple. 10:54 What are we looking for? 10:55 What are we looking for? 10:56 We're looking for the majority of the area to be covered. 10:59 Now, the Mishnah said covered by flesh. 11:02 The Braisa now introduces hide. 11:04 So now the Gemara says, why don't you just say you just need a combination of hide and flesh in order to cover the majority of the area. 11:12 אמר ליה אנן עור או בשר תנינן. We learn it as or o basar. 11:17 So it sounds like what the Gemara's saying over here is they don't combine. 11:20 They don't combine. But you could utilize either one of the two. 11:24 So as long as there's a majority of hide or a majority of flesh, we're good to go. 11:28 Ika d'amrei others explain, אמר רבי יוחנן עור מצטרף לבשר. 11:32 So rabosai, this is the second version and this in fact is the version that the Rama m'dapeis, which is you can have a combination of flesh and hide. 11:40 It's not a problem. 11:41 You don't need one or the other, you just need a majority of coverage and as long as that coverage is provided for by either one or both, we're good to go. 11:49 אמר ליה רב נחמן לעולא ולימא מר עור משלים לבשר לחומרא. Why not instead you just go ahead and say the or is mashleim l'basar. Rashi says over here דבעי רוב הכיסוי בבשר ומיעוטו עור לצטרף בין שניהם לכיסוי רוב העצם. 12:06 So instead, why don't you say that lemaiseh, again, you need a majority of or... 12:12 sorry, a majority of basar and a miyut of or in order to go ahead and make the animal kasher, and therefore it's a chumra because you're going to need both. 12:21 To which the Gemara says, אמר ליה אנא עובדא ידענא. 12:24 I know about a particular story that happened. 12:27 Again, rabosai, we see this all the time, where the Gemara will espouse a concept and then the Gemara will say, what's even more powerful than the espousal of conceptual knowledge? 12:35 Even more powerful than that, halacha lemaiseh. halacha lemaiseh. 12:40 So when you can go ahead and you could say I saw something happen, I was in the beis medrash, that's powerful. 12:45 So the Gemara says what happened, listen to this. 12:47 So the Gemara says, דההוא בר גוזלא דהוה בי רב יצחק. 12:54 There was a pigeon that they brought into the yeshiva bei Rav Yitzchak. 13:00 It was a case of where again there was bone breakage and there was perforation through the skin, and what happened then, it was a case where ultimately again it was or and basar, so hide and flesh, that together formed a 13:14 majority coverage. ואסקיה קמיה דרבי יוחנן ואכשריה. They brought it before Rabbi Yochanan and Rabbi Yochanan declared it kasher. 13:31 He declared it kasher. 13:32 אמר ליה בר גוזלא כאמרת? You're bringing up the case of a pigeon? 13:37 בר גוזלא דרכיך שאני. It's very different. 13:40 Ultimately, again, rabosai, and this gets to the core of it. 13:43 It's very different. A pigeon is very different. 13:46 Why? Because its hide, its skin, is very soft. 13:49 So because its skin is very soft, it has flesh-like identity. 13:53 So now I understand the tension. 13:55 What's the tension ultimately again with this whole discussion about is it hide, is it flesh, can it combine? 14:01 What's the tension? The tension is that hide is not flesh. 14:05 Generally, hide is thicker, hide is tougher. 14:08 So that's the whole tension over here. 14:10 Can hide combine with flesh? 14:12 Are they similar enough or are they fundamentally dissimilar that halacha lemaiseh they cannot combine in order to go ahead and form coverage over the area of the breakage? 14:21 That becomes clear over here because in the case of the gozal, everyone's doing of course hide could go ahead and count. 14:26 Why? Because by a bird, the hide, ultimately, or the skin, I should use skin, the skin is soft like the flesh and therefore it certainly can combine. 14:34 Where's the machlokes case? 14:36 The machlokes case ultimately again is by regular animals. 14:39 Incredible. Incredible. So the Gemara veitar. 14:41 הני גידין רכין דאתו לקמיה דרבא. So listen to this. 14:45 There was this case of giddin rakin. Giddin rakin means soft sinews. 14:49 Soft sinews. So look at Rashi for just a moment. 14:52 Rashi says hanei giddin harakin, it's the last Rashi on the daf. Rashi says דהוו מצטרפי לבשר וחופין רוב עצם הנשבר. 15:01 So here's the case. 15:02 The case rabosai is you had bone perforation, breakage and perforation. 15:06 Now what happened? Now what happened? 15:08 So now on the area of the breakage there were some soft sinews that were there. 15:13 Now essentially, with those soft sinews present, the majority of the area was covered. 15:19 Without the soft sinews, the area was not covered. 15:23 So what's our shaila, what's our shaila? 15:26 Our shaila is, do the sinews ultimately count towards protrusion coverage? 15:31 That's the shaila. So the Gemara says, so the Gemara says, Amar Rava, Rava says, l'mai neichosh, what do we have to be worried about? 15:38 L'mai neichosh? Kada'mar Reish Lakish גידין שסופן להקשות. So rabosai, so here's what's interesting. 15:45 So apparently what happens with sinews, even if they're soft now, ultimately again they'll get hard. 15:51 I guess especially if it's exposed to air, right? 15:53 It'll get hard. So right, so what's the status of something that is soft now? 15:58 Now the reason, now what does that matter? 15:59 Because rabosai, if it's soft, then it's like what? 16:02 Then it's like what? 16:03 It's like basar. So what about if you have something that's soft now, but ultimately again going to get hard later on? 16:10 So what's the halacha? Rabosai, this is incredible. 16:11 Top of Ayin Zayin, this is so exciting. 16:13 Nidnin aleihem b'Pesach. Ultimately, rabosai, I know how you were feeling. 16:17 See you woke up this morning, you're like, Pesach is so far away. 16:21 Right? Pesach is so far, Elul so close, Yomim Noraim so close, but Pesach is so far away. 16:26 You know what Hakadosh Baruch Hu does when he sees a Yid who yearns for kedusha? 16:29 He gives you something. 16:30 You need a little Pesach, a little Pesach pick-me-up? 16:33 Here it is. Here it is. 16:35 So rabosai, this is fascinating. 16:36 So remember again what's the halacha? 16:37 The halacha is that by Korban Pesach, everyone has to be part of a Korban Pesach, which im yirtzeh Hashem we'll be zocha to do this before this coming Yom Tov, we'll be zocha to have a Korban Pesach in the Bayis Shlishi. 16:46 What's the halacha? Everybody has to have a kzayis. 16:48 Everybody has to have a kzayis. 16:49 Now again, the shaila always becomes by Korban Pesach is which parts of the animal, you know, constitute the edible part of the animal? 16:57 So the Gemara says something very interesting. 16:59 Let's say you have sinews that right now are soft and therefore edible, but will become hard. 17:05 Do those count towards the edible edible tally of the animal? 17:09 And the answer is yes. 17:11 Answer is yes. Take a look at Rashi, nidnin aleihem דאפילו לא נמנה אדם עם החבורה אלא לאכול מהן יצא ידי אכילת פסח אלמא בשר נינהו. 17:21 So the fact that the soft sinews of the Korban Pesach can count towards your kzayis of Korban Pesach consumption, that indicates that sinews that are currently soft, even though they're going to become hard, are counted as meat. 17:35 Therefore again rabosai, in our case over here where you have bone breakage and protrusion, if you have the soft sinews that are covering the area, then ein hachi nami that should absolutely work. 17:47 Va-od, furthermore, rabosai it's very interesting התורה חסה על ממונם של ישראל. 17:51 Furthermore, Hakadosh Baruch Hu ultimately again is very careful with our money. 17:56 And therefore again what the Gemara seems to be saying over here is essentially sinews covering, soft sinews covering the area of breakage, even though they will become hard later on, it's good enough. 18:07 It's good enough. Why is it good enough? 18:09 Because if not, what does that represent potentially, what does that represent? 18:12 Total loss. Total loss, financial loss of the animal, which is significant, and Hakadosh Baruch Hu cares about our money. 18:20 אמרי ליה רב פפא לרבא, I don't understand. 18:22 אמרי ליה רב פפא לרבא: ריש לקיש באיסורא דאורייתא ואת אמרת מאי ניחוש? What, what in the world does that mean? 18:28 We're dealing over here with a potential issur d'Oraisa. 18:31 Right? That's what we're dealing with over here, potential issur d'Oraisa. 18:34 The halacha l'maaseh again, if the, remember again rabosai, when you have the case of bone breakage and protrusion, you could be dealing over here with, with a treifa. 18:41 That's an issur d'Oraisa. So you're going to tell me Hakadosh Baruch Hu wants us to not to lose money and therefore it's going to be kosher? 18:48 What kind of, what what what does that mean? 18:51 So the Gemara says ishtik, he was quiet. 18:54 V'amai ishtik? Why was he quiet? 18:55 V'amar Rava, Rava said, הלכתא כוותיה דריש לקיש בהני תלת. 19:01 Ultimately again rabosai, first of all, first of all, he brings up Reish Lakish. 19:04 Now Reish Lakish, if you look at Rashi, Rashi is on the second line from the top on 77a, עין זין עמוד אלף, Reish Lakish פליג עליה בפסחים בכיצד צולין ואמר אין נמנין והכא לאכשורי טריפה קא אתי ואיסור דאורייתא ואת אמרת. 19:20 So rabosai, now remember again, it's very important. 19:22 In the case in Psachim, Reish Lakish said that soft sinews will not be counted towards the consumption tally. 19:32 So Reish Lakish argues. So Reish Lakish holds, so it's very important. 19:35 The same way that Reish Lakish would say that eating soft sinews of the Korban Pesach does not count towards Korban Pesach consumption, what does that tell you, what does that tell you about soft sinews, what does that tell you? 19:46 What does it tell you? 19:47 That it's not basar, it's not meat. 19:49 If it's not basar, then it should also not count towards coverage of the area of bone breakage. 19:55 So hold up here before you go ahead and you tell me that this, that that soft sinews work for bone breakage because they went for Korban Pesach, please understand that there's Reish Lakish. Reish Lakish says it doesn't work by Korban Pesach. 20:07 And if it doesn't work by Korban Pesach it means it's not basar. 20:09 And if it's not basar, then it shouldn't work for coverage of area by bone breakage either. 20:14 To which the Gemara says, \"Hold on a second. 20:17 ואמר רבא הלכתא כריש לקיש בהני תלת.\" But yet Rava said that the halacha follows Reish Lakish, Reish Lakish in ultimately, again, three cases. 20:27 Now, rabosai, three cases and no more. 20:30 And by the way, those three cases don't include this case of the gidin of the soft sinews by Korban Pesach, which sounds like when it comes to the soft sinews by Korban Pesach we don't paskin like Reish Lakish and we paskin ultimately, again, 20:43 that they are basar. 20:44 To which the Gemara says, \"שאני הכא דהדר ביה רבי יוחנן לגבי ריש לקיש.\" This case is different because over here even Rabbi Yochanan recanted his position ultimately, again, and paskined like Reish Lakish. 20:57 And therefore, again, rabosai, he said that halacha l'maaseh—remember Reish Lakish is the one who said that anything that is soft now, but ultimately is going to harden, right, ultimately is not considered, it's not reckoned as something edible. 21:09 Not reckoned as basar. 21:11 So that would be true by Korban Pesach, it'll be true by the case of bone breakage protrusion. 21:15 So again, and Rabbi Yochanan originally disputed Reish Lakish and then Rabbi Yochanan himself recanted and ended up agreeing with Reish Lakish, \"דאמר ליה אל תקניטני בלשון יחיד אני שונה אותה.\" Because, again, rabosai, in this previous discussion Rabbi Yochanan said to Reish Lakish, \"Don't bother me because, again, I wasn't espousing the halacha as a 21:33 general halacha, but rather I was espousing it ultimately, again, in accordance with one particular opinion.\" So rabosai, so interestingly enough the Gemara doesn't really doesn't really resolve this. 21:44 Now, by Korban Pesach, by Korban Pesach, interestingly enough, the halacha by Korban Pesach is gidin that are soft but are going to become hard do not count as Korban Pesach meat. 21:56 So that is how we paskin by Korban Pesach. 21:58 So halacha l'maaseh, what we call something that's soft now and going to harden does not have the status of meat. 22:04 Again, the Gemara kind of leaves it open-ended about how it would apply over here by the case of bone breakage and protrusion. 22:11 Okay, incredible. ההוא נשבר העצם ויצא לחוץ. So rabosai, now watch this. 22:16 So what happens if you have the same case, same case, right, the animal broke a bone, the bone, the bone pierced through the flesh? 22:22 So rabosai, now, and what happened? 22:23 ve-ishtakil kurtisa minei. And now what ended up happening is the bone chipped. 22:29 So part of the bone is missing. 22:31 So the Gemara wants to know does that does that does that piece of information have an impact on anything? 22:36 ata lekamei d'Abaye. So ultimately, again, it came before Abaye. shahayei tlata raglei. 22:40 So rabosai, they asked they asked this before Abaye. Abaye waited to answer this question literally, again, three regalim, three Yamim Tovim. 22:48 Now what that means is remember on the Regel during the Yom Tov all the chakhamim would gather, so he was looking to go ahead and ask the group of talmidei chakhamim about this case. 22:57 And it and it for some reason it lingered, it lingered for three regalim. 23:01 אמר ליה רב אדא בר מתנא זיל קמיה דרבא בריה דרב יוסף בר חמא דחריפא סכיניה. So he said, \"Why don't you go and ask רבא בריה דרב יוסף בר חמא? 23:12 Why? Because, rabosai, he's a sharp knife.\" Now that is a Talmudic compliment, right? 23:16 So being a sharp knife, right, again, rabosai, you could use this one. 23:20 You're such a charifa sakhina, right, such a sharp knife. 23:23 He's sharp, he understands things. 23:24 ata lekamei, אמר מיכדי נשבר העצם ויצא לחוץ תנן מה לי נפל מה לי איתיה. So he answered, he answered, interestingly enough, who cares if the bone chips, right? 23:34 Bone chippage is not the is not is not an issue over here. 23:38 That does that doesn't matter in this discussion. 23:41 What matters over here is that when you have breakage and protrusion is the area covered, is the area not covered. 23:48 That's what matters. Really what happens to the bone is almost totally inconsequential. 23:52 אמר ליה רב פפא לרבא מסלקיט מהו. So rabosai, so now the Gemara asks, remember, a different follow-up questions on this case. 23:57 So maslakeit, so rabosai, if you look at Rashi, maslakeit mahu? Rashi says, בשר הראוי לכסות הרוב אינו יחד אלא כאן מעט וכאן מעט סביב העצם ואם תצרפהו הרי רוב הקיפו מכוסה. 24:07 Rabosai, this is an interesting case. 24:11 So same case, bone breaks, protrudes through the flesh. 24:16 Let's say you have a majority of flesh that covers the area, but the flesh is not all in concentrated in one space. 24:24 In other words, it's spread out. 24:26 It's spread out. So that when you go ahead and you and you kind of take the disparate pieces it forms a majority, but it is not a concentrated majority. 24:36 What happens in that case? 24:37 That that's what we call maslakeit. 24:39 Or masrosis. Masrosis means Rashi says over שיהא הבשר מרודד וקלוש וחופה רוב העצם. 24:46 There's flesh, but it's very flat. 24:48 It's a very thin layer, right? 24:50 masmaseis mahu? Or masmaseis Rashi says over here is it's the flesh itself is beginning to rot. 24:57 So the Shas says in all these cases where the flesh itself is compromised. 25:01 in some way, but at the end of the day it still covers a majority. 25:04 Is that enough? Mahu? Heichi dam mismases? 25:06 So the Gemara says what's the example of where it begins to decay, begins to rot? 25:10 אמר רב הונא בריה דרבי יהושע כל שרופא קודרו. Any case ultimately, again, where the doctor, right, the doctor, if this were if the or the veterinarian, right, if the doctor were to see this he would scrape away the flesh. 25:23 Okay rabosai, so the Gemara kind of leaves all of these open. 25:27 These are cases where there is a majority of coverage, but the coverage itself is compromised because the flesh either again is spread out, even though it's majority it's very thin, it's decaying. 25:38 Iba'i lehu: Nekev mahu, niklaf mahu, nisdak mahu? More questions. What if it was pierced? 25:46 Right, what if it was peeled, what if it was split? 25:48 ניטל שלישה תחתונה מהו. What happens rabosai in the flesh, let's say again you have a majority of flesh covering the area, but let's say the bottom third of the flesh, or a layer a third of the layer was peeled away. 26:02 Mahu? תא שמע דאמר רבי יוחנן עור הרי הוא כבשר. Ultimately, rabosai, so flesh, flesh is, sorry, the hide is like the flesh. 26:12 So the Gemara says, rabosai, now what does that teach you? 26:14 Now remember the assumption is the hide, the hide is a very thin layer. 26:18 So b'pashtus if the hide works in order to provide coverage, then even a very thin layer of flesh should work to provide coverage as well. 26:27 To which the Gemara says: דילמא דקנא משכא דידי. 26:32 So rabosai, the Gemara says, what's going on this morning? 26:39 Rabosai, I know, I'm feeling it also. 26:41 I just want to so the Gemara says, rabosai, second second wide line, second wide line of Rashi: דילמא התם דקנא משכא דידי. 26:48 Rashi says: shehichzik or beshelo. Maybe this is talking about a case of where the hide itself attached itself to the bone. 26:57 Maybe that's different. I guess rabosai, if there's no layer of flesh, I guess over time the hide itself can like graft onto the bone. 27:05 Maybe that's a different kind of case because there the hide itself is much more embedded. 27:10 אמר רב אשי כי הוינא בי רב פפא. So Rav Ashi said when we were in the house of Rav Pappa, iba'ilan, he asked the following shailah: נקדר כמין טבעת מהו. 27:21 What happens if halacha l'maise again there is an area perforation like a ring, like a ringed area that is missing. 27:27 ופשטה מהא דאמר רב יהודה אמר רב: דבר זה שאלתי לחכמים ולרופאים. I asked this very shailah to the chachamim, to the doctors, and they said: משרתל בעצם ומעלה ארוכה. 27:38 Interestingly enough in this kind of case if you scratch the bone, I guess cause some level of irritation in the bone, interestingly enough the irritation could cause the area to regenerate. 27:51 That's what it means. 27:51 Misartel be'etzem, literally go ahead scratch the bone with a little bit more bone, uma'aleh aruka. 27:57 And ultimately again it will begin to regenerate the flesh around it. 28:02 So the Gemara says, however: אבל פרזלא מזרב זריב. 28:06 But this is only if you scratch the bone with bone, not with metal. 28:09 Metal will cause irritation. 28:10 אמר רב פפא והוא דקנא גרמא דידי. Ultimately again and this is only by the way this is only if halacha l'maise we see that the bone itself is able to hold onto some of the flesh, so it has the ability to regenerate. 28:24 Rabosai, also just a tremendous mussar haskel in this. 28:27 Medically I don't know, but l'maise just hashkafically so fascinating. 28:31 You have an area of exposed bone, some of the flesh is missing. 28:35 So what do you need to do? 28:36 Sometimes you need to irritate the bone in order to regenerate the flesh. 28:41 Rabosai, sometimes not sometimes, all the time the greatest growth in life never comes from bracha. 28:48 The greatest growth in life comes from irritation. 28:51 The greatest greatest regenerations in life comes from challenge. 28:55 This is the lesson the biggest lesson the lesson we like the least in life is this lesson, right? 29:03 We love to think that if I just had bracha I could become so great. 29:06 It's not true. No one ever becomes great because of bracha. 29:11 We become great because of adversity. 29:13 That's the way it works. 29:15 When the bone is bare, when the flesh is gone, that's the moment where if you just irritate the bone a little bit more that's when it begins to regenerate. 29:23 Greatness comes from adversity. 29:26 None of us want the adversity, I don't want the challenge. 29:29 But rabosai, it's important to understand when we encounter adversity our first instinct is like to run, to ignore, to suppress, but instead we have to find the koach that when we face adversity to recognize there is a huge opportunity here. 29:41 The greatest moments of the greatest moments of personalistic growth come in the moments of when the bone is bare and if you just lean into it, if you just irritate it a little bit, if you just go ahead and accept 29:52 it that this is the reality, but this is also the awesome opportunity, there's no telling what we can accomplish. 29:58 Rabosai, that's the sugya. Mishna, another Mishna, rabosai, really interesting. 30:00 The mishna over here HaShocheit, this is the last mishna of the perek. 30:03 So savor it. Says the mishna, השוחט את הבהמה ומצא בה שליא, Nefesh hayafah tocheileinah. 30:10 Okay rabbosai, interesting case over here, you shechted an animal, you open it up and you find inside of it a placenta. 30:16 What's the halacha? Now it's interesting, the lashon over here is Nefesh Hayafah. 30:20 Now what does it mean Nefesh Hayafah? 30:22 Rashi says over here שאין דעתו קצה בה מחמת מיאוס. 30:26 So ultimately again, if you're not a mefunak, if you're not a fastidious person, what can you do, what can you do? 30:34 Eat it. In other words, what the mishna is saying is you can eat a placenta. 30:38 Now it's interesting, the mishna is kind of weighing in on this, mishna's kind of saying it's gross but if you don't mind it, right? 30:44 If you don't mind it, right? 30:45 Gei gezunt hait, right? Es gezunt, right? 30:47 Enjoy it. Enjoy it, you can eat it if you want. 30:50 The Gemara says fine. 30:52 Next. ואינה מטמאה לא טומאת אוכלין ולא טומאת נבלות. Now again rabbosai, it is not mitamei tumas ochlin nor is it mitamei tumas neveilos. 31:00 Now what is the mishna adding on over here? 31:02 Now again rabbosai, the chiddush of the mishna is that you might have thought that for some reason that the placenta is eiver min hachai. Kamashmalan that the placenta like the fetus is a part of the animal, is a part of the mother, right? 31:16 That's what's happening over here. 31:18 So therefore again, now again rabbosai, we're also talking about, we're going to see in just a moment, there are cases where you find the placenta and you can't find the fetus. 31:26 So again that's what the mishna's driving at over here as well which is halacha lemaiseh, the placenta is considered to be a part of the mother. 31:34 That's what the mishna's teaching me and therefore again you want to eat it, you could eat it, it's not eiver min hachai, it doesn't have tumas ochlin, it doesn't have tumas neveilos. 31:42 Fine. However, now again rabbosai, now also interestingly enough, the reason why it does not have tumas ochlin, the reason it doesn't have tumas ochlin is because normally a placenta is not considered food. 31:57 In other words, you could eat it if you want but just in normal circles it's not food. 32:03 So because it's not food, its default is it does not have tumas ochlin. 32:07 However, chishiv aleha. Once you decide that what's for dinner tonight, you know, placenta, then lemaiseh, then lemaiseh, you made a siyum during the nine days, right? 32:18 So lemaiseh once you went ahead and you decided that you're going to eat it, okay. 32:21 Now you have designated it as food and once it's food now it is subject to tumas ochlin. Chishiv aleha, so once you had kavana for it, then mitamei tumas ochlin and ultimately again it is tumas ochlin, אבל לא טומאת נבלות. 32:36 But ultimately again, not tumas neveilos. 32:38 Again rabbosai, so see what's happening over here. 32:40 Halacha number one is the placenta's a piece of the mother. 32:42 Therefore again technically speaking you could eat it. 32:44 Now people don't normally eat it, so because people don't normally eat it therefore it does not have tumas ochlin. 32:50 Furthermore it's not tumas neveila, why isn't it tumas neveila? 32:53 Why not? Why not? 32:54 It's part of the mother. 32:55 Once you decide that you're going to eat it now it's ochel. 32:58 Once it's ochel it's subject to tumas ochlin. 33:01 Okay fine. אבל לא טומאת נבלות. שליא שיצאה מקצתה אסורה באכילה. So rabbosai, here we go. 33:06 This is where it gets interesting. 33:07 What happens if an animal partially birthed a placenta? 33:11 A partially birthed placenta, what's the halacha? 33:14 Ultimately again the Gemara says it is asur beachila. 33:18 Now why is that? 33:20 Why is it asur beachila? 33:21 Because rabbosai, ultimately again, because we are concerned over here that halacha lemaiseh contained in that piece of, that part of the placenta is a fetus. 33:32 Is a fetus. And even if you can't see the fetus, we are concerned that the fetus was there and maybe dissolved within the placenta. 33:39 Now understand what's happened over here. 33:41 Once the fetus has been birthed then what, then what? 33:45 Then ultimately again it's its own entity which is no longer permitted with the mother. 33:49 The placenta is always tafel to the fetus, which means again whatever the status of the fetus, that's the status of the placenta. 33:57 So therefore once the placenta has been partially birthed we have to be concerned that maybe the fetus was birthed as well or at least the head of the fetus was birthed, even if you can't find it, again we're going to 34:07 assume that it's in there. 34:08 And therefore again once the fetus is birthed, it's its own entity, not permitted with the shechita of the mother, placenta follows the designation of the fetus and therefore again the placenta is going to be asur as well. 34:20 שליא שיצאה מקצתה אסורה באכילה. Take a quick look at Rashi, Rashi says over here asurah beachila ואף על גב דלא נפק אלא פורתא וליכא למימר כל מחויי הולד היה שם שבאותה מקצת יצא ראש הולד והרי הוא כילוד. 34:34 So again rabbosai, even though we might not be able to see a placenta in there, lemaiseh we have to assume that there is a placenta, a fetus in there and quite possibly the head of the fetus was in there as 34:45 well maybe it dissolved. 34:46 And therefore halacha lemaiseh the fetus was birthed, and if the fetus was birthed halachically then the placenta goes with it and therefore it's asur. Siman vlad beishah, vesiman vlad bebiheimah. 34:57 Just in general where there's a placenta there's also... 35:02 So therefore again whenever we find a placenta we assume that there was a birth that was there that's true both by human beings by a woman as well as by behemas. 35:11 המבכרת שהפילה שליה ישליכנה לכלבים. So it's an interesting case over here. 35:14 If you have an animal that is giving birth to its firstborn and what happened? 35:19 All it does is it expels it births a placenta but there's no fetus inside of it. 35:25 What can you do? 35:26 You can feed the placenta to the dogs. 35:28 It has no kedusha and we'll discuss we'll discuss ultimately again why that is. 35:34 Why that is. Okay yeah Rashi goes through it but we'll leave it in the Gemara. U'bekudashin however if you have a consecrated animal and the consecrated animal births a placenta what's the halacha? Tikaber. 35:45 Ultimately again you have to bury it because since it comes from an animal that's consecrated therefore the placenta is consecrated as well can't feed it to the dogs you have to bury it. 35:53 ואין קוברין אותה בפרשת דרכים. And watch this. 35:55 This is how the Mishna ends. 35:56 However when you bury it when you bury it ואין קוברין אותה בפרשת דרכים. 36:02 You can't go ahead and bury it at a crossroads. 36:05 Okay so the Gemara says at a crossroads. 36:08 ואין תולין אותה באילן מפני דרכי האמורי. And you can't hang it on a tree. 36:13 Why can't you bury it at a crossroads or hang it on a tree? 36:16 Apparently the Mishna says mipnei darchei emori. Chaza darchei emori. Darchei emori generally is a catchall term for certain practices that were rooted in sorcery or in avoda zara. 36:27 So apparently again it was sorcereric right? 36:31 Or or that is a word right? 36:33 Sorcereric I now it is right? 36:35 Sorceric right? Sorcersystic right? 36:38 Or or you can go ahead or or again avoda zara-ish avoda zara-esque to go ahead and take a placenta bury it at a crossroads. 36:46 Apparently again it was like a siman for making the right choices at the crossroads in life or if you had a problem certain certain arboreal issues with your tree. 36:54 So apparently again it was also in sorcery circles or avoda zara circles hang a placenta on it and it'll take care of all of your issues. 37:02 So the Gemara says again halacha l'maiseh these were darchei emori practices and therefore again halacha l'maiseh you're not allowed to do it. 37:09 Incredible. Rashi says over here Rashi says פרשת דרכים מקום שהדרכים נפרשים לשניים ודרך המנחשים לקוברה שם שלא תפיל עוד. 37:19 So apparently again this was a segula that if your animal was miscarrying bury the placenta at a crossroads and it won't miscarry anymore. 37:28 Or darchei emori nichush. This refers to sorcery practices v'lo sa'aseh k'ma'asehem. 37:33 Okay incredible. So we'll say Gemara. Mani hani milei? 37:35 So from where do we know this? 37:38 From where do we know this? 37:38 Tanu rabanan. Now what the Gemara is starting is from where do we know that the placenta is permitted? 37:44 In other words halacha l'maiseh the Mishna starts with the halacha. 37:46 What's the halacha? You shacht an animal you open up the animal. 37:49 We've already established that the ubar is permitted with the shechita of the mother. 37:53 But now the Mishna adds in also the placenta is permitted with the shechita of the mother. 37:56 Where do you know that from? 37:57 Mani hani milei? Tanu rabanan kol behema. Pasuk says the entire animal or all the animal תאכלו לרבות את השליה. 38:05 So again it's the kol. Kol includes anything in the animal including the placenta. 38:11 יכול אפילו יצא מקצתה. You might have thought that even if part of the placenta is birthed you should be able to go ahead and you should be able to go ahead and eat the placenta. 38:21 Talmud lomar osah. Osah v'lo shilyasah. So again the pasuk says it. 38:27 It means you can eat the animal anything inside the animal but anything that's outside of the animal even just partially outside of the animal you cannot eat. 38:33 מכדי אין שליה בלא ולד. So the Gemara says lamah li kra? 38:37 I don't understand why do we need a pasuk to talk about the placenta? 38:41 There's no such thing as a placenta without a fetus. 38:44 We've already established that the fetus is part of the mother and therefore is muttar with the shechita of the mother. 38:48 That's it then it's obvious that the placenta's included in that. 38:50 To which Gemara says you're right you're right. 38:52 Kra asmachta b'alma. You're right you're right. 38:56 Halacha l'maiseh the reason that a fetus is muttar is why? 38:59 Because a fetus is sorry the reason why the placenta's muttar is why? 39:02 Because the placenta's really again part of the of the fetal makeup right? 39:07 And therefore again once the fetus is muttar the placenta's muttar. 39:09 You're right. And what about the pasuk we quoted? 39:13 Asmachta. Asmachta just means again we have a biblical allusion to this but halacha l'maiseh the real reason why the placenta's muttar is because of the fetus is muttar. 39:21 Incredible. Let's go further. 39:23 Ve'einah metameh. So remember again so what did the Mishna say? 39:26 The Mishna said so the placenta's permitted with the with the shechita of the mother. 39:30 And therefore again if you are not a fastidious person and you want to eat placenta go for it. 39:36 But in general people don't eat it and therefore the default is that it is not metameh tumas ochlin. 39:42 The moment you decide you're going to eat it it becomes food. 39:45 The moment you decide it's going to become food it becomes metameh tumas ochlin. 39:48 So the Gemara says last line 77a עין זין עמוד א. בעי רבי יצחק בר נפחא עור חמור ששלקו מהו. 39:57 So now listen to this. 39:58 What happens if halacha l'maiseh you You take the hide of a donkey and you and you cook it. 40:04 Shelako, cook means you boil it. 40:06 You boil it. Rashi says bishlo harbe meod, you cook it a lot. 40:10 What is its status? 40:12 Mahu? So the Gemara says what's its status for what? 40:15 Lemay? Ilo letumas ochlin, if you're talking about does boiled donkey hide become food that it could be mekabel tumas ochlin, if that's what you're talking about, tanina, we already learned that. 40:25 Again, we'll see what we learned in just a moment. 40:27 Ilo letumas nevelos, if you want to know ultimately again does the hide does the boiled hide of a donkey ultimately again still retain its nevela designation, tumas nevelos, we learned that as well. 40:40 Now, where did we learn each of these respective halakhos? Raboysai, here we go. 40:43 Tumas ochlin, so we learned about tumas ochlin, דתניא העור והשליא אין מטמאין טומאת אוכלין. 40:48 We learned raboysai that the braisa says that hide and placenta in general are not metamei tumas ochlin. 40:54 Right? Why? Why? Because in general people do not eat them. 40:58 However, or sheshalko, but if you boil hide. 41:01 Again raboysai, now the general reason why people don't don't eat hide is why? 41:05 Why? It's too tough. 41:07 That's the pshat. So therefore again if you were to boil it, and apparently by boiling hide you go ahead and you make it soft, עור והשליא שחישב עליו, or you take a placenta and you say I'm eating it, right? 41:19 You designated that you're going to eat it. 41:20 What's the halakha? Metama tumas ochlin. Then it's metamei tumas ochlin. 41:23 So raboysai, so what do you see from here? 41:25 Boiled hide is relegated to or I should say boiled hide is reclassified as okhel because again now it's soft, it's fit for consumption, and what's fit for consumption halakha l'maise you can go ahead and eat it. 41:40 Okay. טומאת נבלות נמי תנינא. So tumas nevelos we also learned. 42:13 So the Gemara says בנבלתה ולא בעור ולא בעצמות. 42:17 So raboysai, when is there tumas nevela? 42:18 Again, it says וכי ימות מן הבהמה אשר היא לכם לאכלה הנוגע בנבלתה. 42:23 If you touch nevlasa, so if you touch its right. 42:25 So what has tumas nevela? 42:27 The body itself, the nevela. 42:31 ולא בעור ולא בעצמות ולא בגידין ולא בקרניים ולא בטלפיים. And not, and that doesn't exclude the, sorry, and it doesn't include, it excludes the hide, the bones, the sinews, the horns, and the hoofs. 42:43 So what do you see from here? 42:44 That a hide is excluded from tumas nevela. 42:47 So when we're asking about donkey hide, what are you asking about? 42:51 If you're asking is it subject to tumas ochlin, the answer is yes. 42:55 If you boil it, if you boil it and you make it soft and edible, it's subject to tumas ochlin. 42:59 If you're asking about tumas nevelos, the answer is no, we've already established that. 43:03 So what what's your shaila? 43:04 ואמר רבה בר בר חנה לא נצרכה אלא שעשאן ציקי קדירה. And raboysai, again, what's the case over here? 43:12 Where does this apply? 43:13 This applies where you cook it enough ultimately again that it becomes tziki kdera. Tziki kdera means that you cooked it a lot. 43:20 In other words, apparently hide does not become edible just through cooking it. 43:24 It's cooking it a lot and with spices, with spices that it becomes edible. 43:29 To which the Gemara says le'olam tumas ochlin. 43:32 The truth is when we're asking about donkey hide, we're asking about can donkey hide become okhel and therefore contract tumas ochlin. 43:40 What's unique about donkey hide? 43:42 ושני עור חמור דמיאוס. And we're asking ultimately and what's unique about donkey hide? 43:47 Donkey hide is unique why? 43:48 Because it's gross. Because it's gross. 43:51 Right? Because literally it's repulsive. 43:53 So the shaila is, I understand by other hides, apparently if you cook them enough, certainly if you add enough spices, it becomes edible. 43:59 The shaila was donkey hide, which is in and of itself so repulsive, even through a lot of cooking and spicing, does it become edible? 44:07 And raboysai, the Gemara leaves it unanswered. 44:10 It leaves it unanswered. 44:10 So by other hides apparently again you can relegate them to the status of food. 44:14 Donkey hide because it's so repulsive can it ever be flipped to the status of food? 44:18 That the Gemara leaves as an open-ended question. 44:21 Next. Shilya sheyatzasa. So raboysai, now this is going to be the fascinating, riveting, and complicated sugya. 44:27 So what did the Mishna say? 44:27 The Mishna said if an animal partially birthed a placenta, what's the halakha? 44:32 What's the halakha? Placenta is assur. 44:34 Right? Why? Why is the placenta assur? 44:36 Because we assume, and raboysai here's the phrase to remember, אין שליא בלא ולד. 44:42 There's no placenta without a fetus. 44:45 Therefore, what we are concerned about when we see when we see a partially birthed placenta, what the halakha has to assume is that there's a fetus in there. 44:54 Right? Which means either a whole fetus inside it dissolved, or even just the head of a fetus and it dissolved. 44:59 If that's the case, if the fetus has been remember again rabosai when it comes to fetus either the head comes out it's birthed or the majority of its body came out and it's birthed either way we have to be concerned 45:08 that that occurred if that occurred then halacha lemaise once it's birthed the fetus is no longer part of the mother if the fetus is no longer part of the mother then what then what then the placenta is no longer part of 45:18 the mother either if that's the case then halacha lemaise it's going to essentially have this it's it's for sure not permitted to the mother maybe ever min hachay also so the Gemara says oz Omar Rebbe Elazar לא שנו אלא שאין עמה ולד so when is this true this is true ultimately 45:33 again when there is no fetus there however however the Gemara says if you if you look at look at Rashi Rashi's in the first short line on top אלא שאין עמה ולד באותה שבפנים Omar Rebbe Elazar says when is the halacha of the Mishna true when there is 45:50 no fetus inside of the mother however again aval yesh imma vlad but if there is still a fetus inside of the mother right so rabosai so watch this if there's a fetus still inside of the mother even though now in front of us 46:05 there is a partially birthed placenta אין חוששין לולד אחר you don't have to be concerned that maybe there was a second fetus right so rabosai so remember this is fascinating so Omar Rebbe Elazar says when do we say that halacha lemaise if you have a partially 46:19 birthed placenta you have to be concerned that there's a dissolved fetus in that placenta when there's no other fetus inside of the mother but if there's a partially birthed placenta but there's still a fetus inside the mother rabosai we assume 46:32 that what that placenta belongs to that fetus and therefore halacha lemaise again interesting because the fetus is still inside be'pashtus and part of the placenta's still inside the placenta is going to be muttar as well Rebbe Yochanan Rebbe Yochanan says no בין אין עמה ולד בין יש עמה ולד חוששין לולד אחר so rabosai 46:52 this is fascinating Rebbe Yochanan says not true whether there is a fetus inside the mother or not we are still choshesh that if part of the placenta was birthed maybe there was another fetus maybe there was another fetus and maybe that 47:05 other fetus was birthed together with the placenta and therefore again halacha lemaise the placenta is going to be assur fascinating machlokes seini is this so Omar Rebbe Elazar I've heard Rebbe Yirmiyah said Omar Rebbe Elazar was machmir and rabosai now that doesn't make sense because here in 47:24 this context Omar Rebbe Elazar is actually the meikel he's not the machmir אלא אי אתמר הכי אתמר Omar Rebbe Elazar לא שנו אלא שאינה קשורה בולד so Omar Rebbe Elazar says like this this is only true when ultimately again the placenta is not attached ultimately to a fetus look here Rashi Rashi's in the first short 47:44 line לא שנו דאסורה באכילה דמשמע אפילו יש עמה ולד בפנים when do we say that a partially birthed placenta ultimately again is going to be unequivocally is assur right even if there is a fetus inside the mother Rashi says rabosai now watch this when so so really the Gemara 48:12 says like this Omar Rebbe Elazar says when do we say that halacha lemaise you have to be concerned that a partially birthed placenta had a fetus inside has a fetus a dissolved fetus inside of it even if there's another fetus in the mother 48:25 when that partially birthed placenta is not attached to the fetus in utero aval keshurah bevlad but if the partially birthed placenta is attached to the fetus that is still inside the mother אין חוששין לולד אחר we're not choshesh there was another fetus which which again 48:43 logic rabosai is Omar Rebbe Elazar will say if the if the placenta is attached to the fetus inside the mother then we could we could absolutely make the assumption that that placenta belongs to that fetus right and therefore again and there was 48:57 no other fetus however when the placenta is not attached to the fetus inside the mother then halacha lemaise and it's partially birthed that's when you have to be concerned that maybe there was another fetus inside of that partially birthed placenta Rebbe Yochanan Rebbe Yochanan 49:10 says אין לנו אלא שליא בלא ולד sorry so Rebbe Yochanan omar אין לנו אלא שליא בלא ולד so again however Rebbe Yochanan says no whether all we see in front of us is a placenta without without ultimately again a fetus in there aval yesh imma vlad but if there is a fetus there בין קשורה בולד בין אין קשורה בולד אין חוששין לולד אחר but ultimately 49:35 again if halacha lemaise if ultimately aval yesh imma vlad but if there is a fetus in there then halacha lemaise whether it is attached to the other fetus inside or not we do not have to be choshesh ultimately again for another fetus והיינו דאמר רבי ירמיה לחומרא and rabosai 49:51 ultimately again this is what Rebbe Yirmiyah meant when he said before that Omar Rebbe Elazar was saying lechumra okay incredible תניא כוותיה דרבי אלעזר so rabosai there's a Baraisa that supports Omar Rebbe Elazar hamapeles min ha Hamapeles min habehema. 50:01 So we'll say this is an interesting case. 50:02 This is not talking about a woman, a human being. 50:05 So what happens if we'll say if a woman is, she miscarries and the fetus ultimately again has the appearance of a behema, chaya, of, v'shilya ima. 50:13 And unfortunately, rachmana l'tzlan, there's some type of deformity, so the fetus does not look human, but instead the fetus looks ultimately again like a behema, a chaya, an of, and ultimately again the placenta is with it. 50:27 Bezman she'kshura bahen, אין חוששין לולד אחר. So you'll say when there's no separation between the fetus ultimately again and the placenta, as long as ultimately again the placenta is attached to the fetus, we do not have to be concerned that there's any other fetus inside 50:42 of that placenta. Eina kshura bahen, however if they're not connected, הריני מטיל עליה חומר שני ולדות. 50:49 Then I have to be concerned that perhaps there are two fetuses, right? 50:52 That ultimately again there's the fetus in utero and there's another dissolved fetus in the placenta. 50:57 Sh'ani omer, because I have to be concerned, שמא נימוח שפיר של שליה שמא נימוח שלייתו של שפיר. 51:04 I have to be concerned that maybe, maybe the fetus inside the mother had its own placenta which dissolved and the placenta which emerged had another fetus which dissolved as well. 51:13 So rabosai, so that seems to, we'll have to stop over here for today, but this seems to be where the Gemara ends off like Rabbi Elazar, that halacha lemaaseh, the concern, the concern in a partially birthed placenta is that halacha lemaaseh there is 51:25 a dissolved fetus. And that's what we have to be concerned about and that's why again the placenta is going to be asur. 51:31 The Gemara then throws another wrinkle in this. 51:33 So what happens if the placenta is partially birthed but there's a fetus inside? 51:36 Do you have to be concerned that maybe there's two fetuses? 51:39 There's the fetus in the mother and then there's the dissolved fetus in the placenta. 51:43 That's going to be dependent ultimately again on whether or not the placenta is attached to the fetus. 51:48 If the placenta is attached to the fetus, you need not be concerned about a second fetus in the placenta, but if the placenta is not attached to the fetus, then you have to be concerned for a second fetus inside the 51:59 placenta as well. Rabosai, we're not finished with it. 52:01 There's more to come tomorrow im yirtzeh Hashem. Yashar koach.
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