Transcript Translit עברית
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0:14 All right, Rabosai, good morning, good morning, Gut Chodesh. 0:18 It is so wonderful to see all of you. 0:21 Let's do this. Let's do this. 0:23 Baruch Hashem, brand new month, well, almost a brand new month. 0:26 Almost a brand new month, but it feels like a brand new month. 0:28 A real Hischadshus, such a zchus, Baruch Hashem to be back with all of you. 0:32 Begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning's shiur. 0:35 To thank our Talmud Torah sponsors for the month of Av, this is first day Rosh Chodesh Elul, still for the month of Av, Mel and Karen Rahm, dedicating all of the shiurim and droshei this month in the zchus of a refuah shleima for Eliezer ben Elisheva. 0:48 And Eden Iris Miller, Adam and Dr. 0:49 Leslie Miller Rosen, l’iluy nishmas Dr. 0:52 Joseph Miller, חיים יוסף בן ראובן, zichrono livracha. 0:55 The friends of ירחמיאל בן פערל לאה, in the zchus of a refuah shleima. 0:59 And our week of learning sponsors, Meir and Boria Samuel, lirfuas הרב משה בן חנה. 1:06 And our daf yomi sponsors for today, Ayal and Sarah Steinberg, in the zchus of continued hatzlacha, Chana bas Sosha, and for an ultimate refuah shleima. 1:14 And of course today we also dedicate our learning in the zchus of Mr. 1:20 Schonfeld, zichrono livracha. Menachem’s father, Mr. 1:22 Schonfeld was צבי מאיר בן משה הלוי, zichrono livracha, whose levaya is this afternoon. 1:29 So many of you knew him, many you probably didn’t know him, an incredibly special man who for when we started the last cycle, this current cycle, right, which started right when, right before COVID broke out, Mr. 1:42 Schonfeld was, Baruch Hashem, here in our Beis Medrash every single morning, incredibly, incredibly special man, full of just incredible simcha, incredible simcha, just a special neshama who when you were with him, you were just happy to be in his presence. 1:57 A man who was a real patriarch for his family, a real loss for his family, a real loss for our community. 2:02 His precious neshama should have an aliyah and im yirtzeh Hashem his family should have chizuk and nechama, im yirtzeh Hashem in the days, the weeks, and the months ahead. 2:09 We also, of course, also we dedicate our learning in the zchus of our brothers and sisters in Eretz Yisrael. Hakadosh Baruch Hu, im yirtzeh Hashem, continue to look after them, shower them with hashgacha u'shmira yeseira, and we should be zocheh im yirtzeh Hashem to a month of incredible besoros tovos, hatzlachos, yeshuos, and nechama. 2:22 So with that, let us begin. 2:24 Today’s daf, what and what a daf it is. 2:26 What a daf it is. 2:28 Today’s daf is kuf hay, 105. 2:30 We’re picking up im yirtzeh Hashem on קוף דלד עמוד בית, also a very special thank you to Jeremy Lasten, to Meshie Abramson, the tech team for helping me to give daf while I was, and Ami Ashman, a new addition to our tech team, Ami Ashman, 2:44 Steve Goloskov, pretty much the entire shiur, takes an entire shiur to enable me to give daf yomi while I'm away, and thank you to all the maggidei shiur who helped while I was gone. 2:54 Tremendous zchus to be back. 2:55 Rabosai, let’s go. קוף דלד עמוד בית, tana, Rabosai, we have ridiculous Gemara today, ridiculous halacha, ridiculous hashkafa. 3:03 Now what we're just going to have to do just because of time is we're not going to be able to delve into the halacha lemaiseh, but I’ll show you where the halacha lemaiseh sources are and im yirtzeh Hashem I’m sure there’s a short daf 3:15 somewhere in the next year we’ll im yirtzeh Hashem get back to some of the halacha lemaiseh when we have a chance. 3:21 The Gemara says אגרא חמוה דרבי אבא. 3:24 Agra who was the father-in-law of Rabbi Abba, עוף וגבינה נאכלין באפיקורן. 3:28 He said the following that oph u’gvina, chicken and cheese, can be consumed apikoran. 3:34 Now what’s apikoran? Rashi says over apikoran, דרך הפקר שאינו נזהר בהם. 3:37 That essentially you can, it sounds like what he’s saying is you can eat chicken and milk together. 3:43 Fowl and milk together. 3:45 apikoran lashon hefker, pretty much you can do whatever you want. 3:48 Do whatever you want, fine. 3:50 So the Gemara says tana, so the Gemara says הוא תני לה והוא אמר לה. 3:53 Now he qualified that statement because Rabosai obviously we have a moforesh Mishnah that says that it’s not like that, right, that ultimately oph is treated like behema v’chaya. 4:02 So therefore again he qualified the statement: הוא תני לה והוא אמר לה, בלא נטילת ידים ולא בקינוח הפה. 4:09 He says ultimately again you could consume chicken and milk without netilas yadayim, without washing your hands, and without wiping out your mouth. 4:17 Now what those two what those two statements mean im yirtzeh Hashem to be defined in just a little bit. 4:23 Okay. So Rabosai so the point over here is that what Agra’s really introducing to us is that perhaps as much as we said before that chicken and milk really has to be treated like meat and milk, perhaps halacha lemaiseh there’s room 4:35 to be meikel. More on that in just a second. 4:37 רבי יצחק בריה דרב משארשיא איקלע לבי רב אשי. So Rabbi Yitzchak the son of Rav Mesharshiya went to the house of Rav Ashi. ayisu lei gvina, listen to this, so they brought him cheese, they brought him cheese, achal, he ate it, ayisu lei bisra, he went ahead and then they brought him meat, אכל ולא משא ידיה. 4:54 Watch this. So Rabosai up until now we've been really focused on meat and then milk, right? 4:59 Although we're going to do everything today, now and this case is very important. 5:02 This is milk and then meat. 5:04 So they brought him cheese, so remember again, this is Rav Yitzchak, Rav Yitzchak the son of Rav Mesharshya. 5:08 They brought him cheese, he ate it. 5:11 They brought him meat and he ate it also but he did not wash his hands in between the cheese and the meat. 5:19 Now what's going on over here ultimately again without washing hands? 5:23 So the assumption over here is that at least one has to wash their hands between cheese and meat because of the residue. 5:31 Because of the potential residue, again remember they're eating with their, we at least some of the eating process is done with your hands. 5:37 If you eat cheese and you have cheese schmutz, that's the technical term. 5:41 You have cheese schmutz on your hands and then you eat meat, that's problematic. 5:44 So the Gemara is pointing out, he ate cheese and he didn't wash his hands before eating meat. 5:49 אמרי ליה והתניא אגרא חמוה דרבי אבא עוף וגבינה נאכלין באפיקורן. So one second, but even Agra just said before, it's only chicken and cheese that could be eaten in rapid succession and you don't have to worry. 6:02 But Gemara says of u'gvina in basar u'gvina lo, which bifshitu means that again, when it comes to meat and milk, meat and cheese, there does have to be some type of process. 6:13 So how was Rav Yitzchak able to go ahead and go from, again remember, he's going from cheese to meat without any kind of process? 6:21 Amar lehu, this is very interesting, amar lehu: hani mili b'leila אבל ביממא הא חזינא. 6:26 You're right. When do you have to wash your hands? 6:28 You have to wash your hands at night, because at night you can't necessarily see if there's any residue. 6:33 But by day, where you can see if there's residue, so you do an ocular inspection, and again if halacha l'ma'aseh you go ahead and you find, and if you find residue on it, good, and if not, you're good to go. 6:48 Fascinating rabbosai. So again, so just, just keep, keep tabs on the information that's being conveyed to us and we'll make sense of it. 6:56 Obviously rabbosai, the big question we have to also discuss, which is what kind of cheese are we referring to over here? 7:01 Right clearly they're not talking about like Haolam stacked, you know, American cheese, processed cheese. 7:06 This bifshitu is talking about older aged type of cheeses, which we'll get into im yirtzeh Hashem, but the idea over here is that halacha l'ma'aseh when going from cheese to meat, something has to happen. 7:17 You can't just go as much as Agra said perhaps you can go from cheese to chicken, or even maybe from chicken to cheese without anything, halacha l'ma'aseh between cheese and meat something's going to happen. 7:28 Tanya, Beis Shammai says, Beis Shammai says that if you went ahead and you ate gvina, the case over here is, you ate cheese and now you want to eat meat. 7:39 So Beis Shammai says okay rabbosai, what's the process? 7:41 I want to go from cheese to meat. 7:44 What do I need to do if anything? 7:46 בית שמאי אומרים מקנח. Beis Shammai says you have to go ahead and clean out your mouth. 7:54 Clean out your mouth. 7:55 Again, we're going to discuss mekanach bifshitu means you chew on something, you chew on something in order to remove any residue that's in your mouth. 8:04 So the classic thing that they would use would actually be a piece of bread. 8:08 Right now you would not be eating that piece of bread, bifshitu what you would do is you would put that piece of bread in your mouth, you would chew it, by chewing on the bread it removes any of the residue 8:16 that's in your mouth, and then you would extract that piece of bread. 8:20 That's the concept ultimately again of mekanach. Mekanach literally means to clean, cleansing the palate. 8:28 ובית הלל says madiach. Madiach means to rinse. 8:33 To rinse. You go ahead and you rinse out, you wash out your mouth. 8:36 Okay. So the Gemara says: מאי מקנח מאי מדיח? 8:38 So what does this mean mekanach madiach? 8:41 Top of kuf hey, 105a. 8:42 Ee leima, so what are we saying? 8:44 Ee leima בית שמאי אומרים מקנח ולא בעי מדיח, if we're saying that Beis Shammai says that ultimately again mekanach, that Beis Shammai are saying all you need to do is wipe out the mouth and you do not need to rinse it, ובית הלל אומרים מדיח ולא בעי מקנח, and Beis Hillel are saying no, all you 9:02 need to do is rinse and you don't need to wipe, ela hadamar Rabbi Zeira, Rabbi Zeira made a statement. 9:08 This was Rabbi Zeira's statement: אין קינוח פה אלא בפת. 9:11 So Rabbi Zeira said that ultimately the cleaning out of the mouth could only be done with bread. 9:15 Now based on what we just said before, that statement keman k'Beis Shammai? 9:21 Now it would just be interesting if Rabbi Zeira would state the halacha like Beis Shammai not like Beis Hillel. Ela, rather rabbosai the Gemara reframes it: בית שמאי אומרים מקנח ולא בעי מדיח ובית הלל אומרים אף מדיח. 9:34 So the Gemara says rather Beis Shammai said like this: You have to go ahead and wipe out the palate, right wipe out your mouth with... 9:41 now again, I'm saying bread but we're going to see it's not just bread. 9:44 Point is you have to clean your palate by eating something in between the cheese and the meat, but you do not need to rinse. 9:52 ובית הלל אומרים אף מדיח. Beis Hillel says no you even have to rinse. 9:57 Not only is it enough, you can't only clean the palate but you actually have to to rinse the palate or rinse your mouth as well. 10:03 Gemara says, well that's the case, הוו דמקולי בית שמאי וחומרי בית הלל. 10:06 Well, that's interesting because now essentially what you're telling me is Beis Shammai is meikel and Beis Hillel is machmir, right? 10:14 Beis Shammai says all you need is kinuach to clean out your mouth and Beis Hillel says you need to clean and rinse. 10:18 Gemara says ולתנייה גבי קולי בית שמאי וחומרי בית הלל. And also if that's the case we have this referenced in yesterday's daf or two days ago, right? 10:29 That again there's a list, there's a list of things in which Beis Hillel is meikel and Beis Shammai is machmir. 10:36 If that's the case and if this is one of these cases this should be listed there along with the rest of those items and yet it's not. 10:43 Ella, rather Rabosai here's the conclusion, בית שמאי אומרים מקנח והוא הדין למדיח. 10:49 Beis Shammai says ultimately no, mekaneach you have to wipe out the palate and you also have to rinse. 10:55 ובית הלל אומרים מדיח והוא הדין למקנח. Beis Hillel says you have to go ahead and rinse, right? 11:04 And you also have to clean it out. 11:06 So Gemara says essentially, Rabosai, what are they saying? 11:08 They're both saying the same thing. 11:10 They're both saying you need both. 11:12 מר אמר חדא ומר אמר חדא ולא פליגי. They were just so in bottom line is both Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel agree that you need what we call both kinuach and hadacha. 11:23 You need both a cleaning out of the palate that is accomplished by eating something and then removing it as well as by rinsing it. 11:29 They both agree but rather they were both focusing on one part of that two-part process but both ultimately agree that you require both. 11:39 Okay incredible. So Rabosai, this is really interesting because this the Gemara kind of pauses here for just a moment again we're going to qualify this more but it seems to be that both according to Beis Shammai and Beis Hillel if you eat 11:51 cheese and then you want to eat meat you must do a two-stage process. 11:57 You must clean out your palate by eating something, right, that extracts any stuff that's in between the teeth or anything like that and then you have to rinse, then you have to rinse. 12:07 There may be a third thing you have to do which is, which is washing your hands. 12:12 But perhaps that's only done when you don't require ocular inspection. 12:16 So just hold on to this because, Rabosai, like is this halacha lema'aseh? 12:20 Does this apply to everything? 12:23 Right? Is this a din in cheese? 12:25 If so what kind of cheese or is this just a din general with all milchiks? 12:30 That any time you're going from milchiks to fleishiks you have to undergo this two potentially three-stage process. 12:36 So hold on to that because this is a more involved sugya we've short amount of time today and I just want to make sure we try to get started. 12:42 This is one of my kabbalas. 12:44 This is New Shmuel Silber 17.0, right, that that again we're going to try to get through the daf a little bit a little bit faster. 12:51 I only made the kabbalah for today we'll see we'll see but but again this just somebody keep track of the sugyas that we have to go through because these are great great sugyas im yirtzeh hashem we're going to get to that. 13:03 I'll give you I'll give you like the the soundbite halacha lema'aseh im yirtzeh hashem because this sugya is going for the next couple of days. 13:08 Here we go. גופא אמר רבי זירא אין קינוח הפה אלא בפת. 13:11 Sorry. Rabbi Zeira says the only way to properly cleanse your palate to properly go ahead and clean out your mouth is with bread. 13:19 Now again, Rabosai, because that's what we spoke about before furthermore more qualifications והני מילי בדחטי אבל בדשערי לא. 13:23 Only wheat bread but not with barley bread. 13:29 Rashi points out over here בדשערי מפני שמפורר בתוך הפה ואינו נקשר יחד כשהוא לעסו. 13:34 Apparently barley bread crumbles as opposed to wheat bread which remains which remains consistent. 13:42 So remember the whole chap over here is what you need is you need you need a food item that is going to form a mass and a solid mass within your mouth because this way when you keep chewing it the 13:54 mass is still there and because it's a mass it's extracting anything. 13:58 So that's wheat bread not barley bread. 13:59 דחטי נמי לא אמרן אלא בקרירא אבל בחמימא משתר שרי. But even with wheat bread it's only with cold wheat bread. 14:07 Only cold wheat bread but ultimately again with warm wheat bread that sticks to the palate and that that you don't want. 14:14 Vehani milei berachicha furthermore again it's only with the bread is soft aval be'akusha lo what if it's hard bread which makes sense because then that's going to crumble in the mouth obviously that's not going to work. 14:26 The Gemara says vehilchasa but bottom line halacha lema'aseh והלכתא בכל מילי הוי קינוח you could actually clean out your mouth with any type of food substance with the exception of לבר מקמחא תמרי וירקא flour dates and vegetables. 14:43 These items cannot go ahead and be used. 14:47 Again so, Rabosai, which all of them all of them actually make sense Rashi says over here קמחא תמרי וירקא רכין הן. 14:52 All of these items are very soft and therefore they're sticky and therefore they're not going to have the they're not going to have the desired result. 14:59 Incredible. So Rabosai so Halacha L'Maiseh, so this this is the end of this Sugya over here. 15:05 So, the conclusion of the Gemara appears to be that if you are going from cheese to meat, you require a two potentially three part process. 15:13 Number one, Kinuach, although we'll also have to see does the order of Kinuach and Hadacha matter? 15:19 But let's assume right now it doesn't matter. 15:20 So Kinuach, you have to cleanse the palate with a food item. 15:24 Number two, number two, Hadacha, you have to rinse out the mouth. 15:27 And number three if it's at night and you can't see your hands, you have to wash your hands as well. 15:31 So that, we're going to have to circle back to this. 15:33 Is this Halacha L'Maiseh? If it is Halacha L'Maiseh, what does it apply to? 15:37 And again, then we'll get into contemporary Shailos, like let's say for example, let's say that today there's a Din Hadacha, there's a Din Hadacha or a Din, excuse me, a Din of Kinuach. 15:47 Can I accomplish Kinuach through brushing my teeth? 15:50 In other words, so today, have a toothbrush, I don't have to use a piece of bread, I could accomplish the same thing with a toothbrush. 15:55 Again, we're going to come back to the Sugya and see the Halacha L'Maiseh there. 15:58 Good, let's go a little bit Veiter. 15:59 בעי מיני רב אסי מרבי יוחנן. So now Rabosai, now this is fascinating, now this is the opposite Shaila. 16:06 We started out today with a discussion about what do you have to do between cheese and meat. 16:12 Now, we're getting to the real, no pun intended, the real meat of the Sugya. 16:16 What do you have to do between meat and milk? 16:19 What's the Halacha? So כמה ישה בין בשר לגבינה. 16:25 Ultimately again, how much time do you have to wait between meat and cheese? 16:30 And Rabosai, you understand whenever the Gemara uses the word cheese, so cheese Lav Davka has to be specific, right? 16:36 In the first Sugya of waiting between cheese and meat, that may actually be specific because we'll see that the obligation for waiting or even for cleaning or washing may not apply to just other dairy products, it may just apply to 16:48 cheese which we'll discuss. 16:49 But in this topical over here, it doesn't, cheese is not specific. 16:53 Cheese means dairy. How much time do you have to wait between Fleishigs and Milchigs? 16:57 Here we go Rabosai, this is a great Sugya. 16:59 So Rav Assi asked of Rabbi Yochanan. 17:01 אמר ליה ולא כלום. Rabbi Yochanan said you don't have to wait at all. 17:06 Like, oh, that's my Rebbi. 17:07 That's my Rebbi, right? 17:09 You don't have to wait, every once in a while you find something that restores your faith in Yiddishkeit. 17:13 It's incredible, right? That's my Rebbi. 17:17 אמר ליה ולא כלום. Inni? What? You don't have to wait at all? 17:21 אמר רב חסדא אכל בשר אסור לאכול גבינה גבינה מותר לאכול בשר. But Rav Chisda said explicitly, if you ate meat, you can't immediately eat cheese, but if you ate cheese, you can immediately eat meat. 17:36 Okay, so obviously it's clear you do have to wait some thing. 17:39 אלא כמה ישה בין גבינה לבשר. So rather they asking, rather he reframed it, he said, maybe the question was כמה ישה בין גבינה לבשר. 17:48 Maybe we're going back to that. 17:48 אמר ליה ולא כלום. To which he responded, you don't have to wait at all, which, Rabosai, makes sense, because even in the previous Sugya, there's no time component, right? 17:58 There's no time component between cheese and meat. 18:01 There's a procedural component. 18:02 You may have to go ahead and wipe out your mouth and wash out your mouth, at night wash your hands, but there's no time component to it. 18:09 So Gufa, let's go back and analyze this. 18:10 אמר רב חסדא אכל בשר אסור לאכול גבינה גבינה מותר לאכול בשר. If you ate meat, you're not allowed to eat cheese, גבינה מותר לאכול בשר, but if you ate cheese, you're allowed to eat meat. 18:20 אמר רב אחא בר יוסף לרב חסדא בשר שבין השיניים מהו. So Rabosai, this is very interesting. 18:26 Essentially, what this really comes down to is as follows. 18:29 When I eat meat, the assumption is that there's residue and more than residue, there's often pieces of meat in my teeth. 18:36 What is the status of meat between the teeth, right? 18:40 Does that have, does that have the status of meat or not? 18:45 קרי עליה הקרא הבשר עודנו בין שניהם. The Pasuk says the meat was still between their teeth. 18:52 And again Rabosai, this is unfortunately the episode of the Slav, where Klal Yisrael complained that they didn't have meat in the desert, Hakadosh Baruch Hu brought about a whole bunch of Slav. 19:03 Now interestingly enough, Slav is fowl, it's Ouf, right? 19:08 It's not Basar. But that doesn't matter. 19:10 The point over that the Gemara is making is you see that when stuff is between your teeth, it still retains its identity. 19:16 So it says, קרי עליה הקרא הבשר עודנו בין שניהם. 19:18 The meat was still between their teeth, which indicates to us that even meat between your teeth, ultimately, again, has the status of meat. 19:28 קרי עליה הקרא הבשר עודנו בין שניהם. And Rabosai, this is incredibly important because now that I know that meat between the teeth still has, still has status of meat, that means again it is not Pashut at all just to go from Fleishigs to Milchigs without any 19:45 type of procedure, process, or wait time. 19:47 Amar Mar Ukva. So Rabosai, this is incredible. 19:50 So now we still haven't answered the question. 19:51 So here's what we've got. 19:52 It seems to be pretty clear that you have to wait between Fleishigs and Milchigs. 19:57 That seems to be pretty clear, explicitly clear. 19:59 What I don't know is And why do I have, again, why do I have to wait? 20:03 It's important. Why do I have to wait? 20:05 Because basar bein shineihem. Because the meat inside my mouth still has the status of meat. 20:12 So therefore, rabosai, now that I know that I have to wait, the follow up shaila is how long do I have to wait? 20:17 Amar Mar Ukva, so listen to this, Mar Ukva said, ana lehai milsa, me in this matter, in this particular matter, this matter of waiting between meat and milk, חלא בר חמרא לגבי אבא, I am like vinegar compared to wine when I am compared to my father, meaning in other 20:34 words so Mar Ukva was saying over here I'm like the vinegar, my father's like the wine. 20:39 My father conducted himself on to such a high level and I don't conduct myself to the same high level. 20:44 So I'm like vinegar compared to wine in this area. 20:46 What happened? Listen, this is wild. 20:47 דאבא כי הוי אכל בישרא האידנא לא הוה אכל גבינא עד למחר. Listen to this. 20:54 When my father would eat fleishiks he would wait 24 hours, 24 hours before eating milchiks. 21:04 Incredible. The Gemara says, ve'ilu ana, Mar Ukva says me, בהא סעודתא הוא דלא אכילנא, I will not eat fleishiks and milchiks in the same meal, leseudasa achrisa achilna, but in a different meal, in a different meal I will go ahead and eat it. 21:21 Mar Ukva said I won't eat in the same meal but I'll eat in different... 21:24 so rabosai I just want to point out, if you ever want to see like one literal, literally again I would say one to three words that generate voluminous amounts of rabbinic literature, it's these three words. 21:36 Mar Ukva says you can't eat milchiks and fleishiks in the same meal but you can eat it in two different meals. 21:42 What does that mean? 21:42 I just want to show you something very quickly. 21:44 Look at Tosafos. Tosafos says לסעודתא אחריתא אכלנא לאו בסעודתא שרגילים לעשות אחת שחרית ואחת ערבית אלא אפילו לאלתר אם סילק השולחן ובירך מותר הוא דלא פלג רבנן. 21:58 So according to Tosafos, what Mar Ukva is literally saying is you're not allowed to eat milchiks and fleishiks in the same meal. 22:04 So what do you have to do? 22:05 You ate fleishiks, you want to eat milchiks, what do you have to do? 22:07 What do you have to do? 22:08 Bentsch, clear the table. 22:10 That's it. Bentsch, clear the table and that's all. 22:12 Rabosai, that's all you have to do, right? 22:14 So others say no, what does bein seuda leseuda mean? 22:17 It means ultimately again from the morning seuda to the afternoon seuda to the evening seuda. 22:21 How long was that often? 22:23 Six hours, six hours, seven hours. 22:26 Others say the Shaarei Teshuva brings down, he says again sometimes in the winter days there was up to only three hours in between seudos. 22:34 I just want to point out that pretty much every single minhag we have, including the Dutch minhag to go ahead and only wait one hour, comes from this Tosafos. 22:42 Comes from this Tosafos. 22:42 Where does an hour come from? 22:44 An hour comes from because again Tosafos says you can't eat milchiks and fleishiks in the same seuda. 22:49 Okay, so what do you have to do? 22:50 Clear off the bentsch, clear off the table, so the halacha always likes to give shiurim. 22:55 Fine, an hour. And by the way it's brought down by the Remo, an hour. 22:58 So an hour, three hours, six hours, and to the six hours I just want to point out again we're going to do this much more justice, all comes from this statement, all from Mar Ukva, all from Mar Ukva that you can't eat 23:10 milchiks and fleishiks in the same meal but you can eat in two separate meals. 23:14 And the definition of two separate meals again subject to much dispute. 23:18 Incredible. Amar Shmuel, Shmuel says as follows, ana lehai milsa, chala bar chamra, rabosai now they're talking about... 23:31 rabosai it's very, very profound. 23:33 You know Sigmund Freud was not the first person to discover that the most important relationship that we have in life is the relationship we have with our parents, and how that relationship was the one ultimately is the one that forges 23:48 almost or creates an imprint for all of our other life relationships. 23:52 Chazal understood this long before and it's fascinating to see how sometimes sons struggle to measure up to their father. 24:01 And it's just fascinating to see how sometimes you see over here just in Shas, just the reflections of sons saying I recognize that in this area I do not measure up to my father. 24:10 Right? Because the wording over here is so interesting, I am like vinegar compared to wine when it comes to my father. 24:14 So Mar Ukva said his thing. 24:15 Now they're talking about sons who feel that they don't measure up to their father. 24:19 Listen to this. Amar Shmuel, ana lehai milsa, חלא בר חמרא לגבי אבא. 24:23 Shmuel says in this area, we'll see which area he's talking about, I am like vinegar compared to wine when it comes to my father. 24:28 De'ilu abba, listen to this, my father ultimately הוה סייר נכסיה תרי זמני ביומא. 24:35 My father, this is fast, my father would go and inspect his properties, right, or his... 24:41 nichasei literally means his possessions, but here right, he would go out and inspect his properties, his possessions, twice a day, twice a day. 24:50 Okay. The Gemara says and what happened? 24:52 And what happened? Va'ana, and now Shmuel says אנא לא סיירנא אלא חדא זמנא, I only inspect my property and possessions once a day. 25:01 Once a day. Once a day. 25:02 So in this respect I am like vinegar compared to wine when it comes to my father. 25:07 Shmuel l'tamay. Now what what is this idea of inspecting your property, inspecting your possessions every day? 25:12 D'amar Shmuel, listen to this, מן דסייר נכסיה כל יומא משתכח אסתירא. 25:18 When one goes ahead and inspects his property, inspects his possessions every day, he will find an astira, astira. 25:25 Now what is astira? Astira is a coin. 25:26 What does that mean, rabosai? 25:27 Take a look at Rashi. 25:28 This is incredible. First of all sayar, Rashi says הולך ורואה קרקעותיו מה הן צריכות. 25:33 So Shmuel's father would go out and inspect his possessions twice a day. 25:37 Why? To see, is there something happening in the property, something happening in the field, something happening in the house, something happening with the workers? 25:43 Right? And this way he would be able to see, be on top of all of his stuff, to be able to see what was needed. 25:47 So Shmuel said because if you go ahead and you inspect your stuff every day, you'll find an astira. Rashi says מוצא סלע מפני שמתקנם בכל הצורך. 25:57 So Shmuel is saying like this, because rabosai, what ends up happening? 25:59 If you inspect your stuff, you go out and inspect your property, you inspect your possessions, you you oversee your workers, inevitably what are you going to find? 26:06 What are you going to find? 26:07 Something's broken, something's inefficient, and so you'll go ahead and you'll you'll find, you'll find things that need to be fixed. 26:15 And so ultimately again, you'll end up saving yourself money, you'll end up saving yourself much greater heartache. 26:20 So the gemara says Abaye, Abaye הוה סייר נכסיה כל יומא ויומא. 26:25 So Abaye used to inspect his property every day. 26:28 By the way, I'm saying property, but it really means his possessions every day. 26:31 The gemara says יומא חד פגע באריסיה דהוה פסחא דאופי. 26:35 Listen to this. One day he came across a worker who was stealing a bundle of wood. 26:41 He was stealing a bundle of wood. 26:42 Amar leh הני להיכא הני להיכא ליה הני להיכא. So he said to the worker, excuse me, where where are you taking the wood? 26:49 The worker, a little flustered, said, oh, l'bei mar, I'm bringing it to your house. 26:53 The problem was he had already brought wood to the house and the house didn't need any more wood. 26:57 So Abaye caught him. 26:57 Amar leh kvar kadmucha rabanan. The rabbis already preceded you. 27:01 In other words, so the rabbis understood telling the owner, inspect your property, inspect your stuff, because again you could prevent against loss, you could prevent against, you could prevent against theft. 27:11 Rav Asi הוה סייר נכסיה כל יומא. Listen to this. 27:14 Rav Asi followed the followed the the advice of Chazal and would go ahead and inspect his property every day, his possessions every day. 27:23 Amar היכן נינהו כל אסתירא דמר שמואל. But again, now why did he do it? 27:27 Because Shmuel said if you go ahead and inspect your property, you'll find money, you'll find money. 27:32 So it's interesting, so Rav Asi said, I inspect my property every day, where's the money? 27:37 Right? Show me the money. 27:38 Where where where where's all this money that I'm supposed to be saving? 27:42 So so so listen to this. 27:44 So the gemara says יומא חד חזא צינורא דבדקא בארעא. 27:48 So one day he was walking along one of his fields and one of the irrigation pipes had burst or developed a leak, developed a leak. 27:55 So gemara, what did he do? 27:56 You know, look at Rashi. Rashi says צינורא דבדקא המים יוצאין מחוץ לגדותיהן ובאים לשטוף פירותיו דרך הפתח שבשפת האמה. 28:06 So he saw that there was a leak in one of the irrigation pipes and it threatened to go ahead and flood the field and obviously ruin the produce. 28:13 What did he do? 28:14 Shakal leh glimei. He grabbed his cloak, karchie osvei. 28:18 He made like a irrigation pipe tourniquet, right? 28:21 He went ahead and he he bound, he essentially he plugged, he plugged the hole. 28:25 And what happened? ואותביה בגוה רמא קליה. 28:27 He then raised his voice because he needed more help. 28:30 Asu inshei sachalua, and people came and helped him plug the hole. 28:35 אשכחינהו לכולהו אסתירא דמר שמואל. And on that day, on that day he found all of the coins ultimately again that Shmuel had promised. 28:44 Rabosai, I have to tell you something amazing. 28:46 I have to tell you something absolutely amazing just so you understand and appreciate what incredible gift the Ribono shel Olam just gave us in this gemara. 28:55 What what is the gemara saying? 28:56 The gemara is giving a good piece of advice. 28:59 You have property, you have possessions, right? 29:02 Go out and be on top of your stuff. 29:04 Be on top of your workers, be on top of your properties, be on top of your portfolios, be on top of your possessions. 29:10 Why? Because inevitably stuff happens. 29:13 Stuff happens. And this way if you find things when they're little problems, you could prevent them from becoming big problems. 29:23 But if halacha l'ma'aseh, I'm totally ignorant and I don't take care, I'm I'm not I'm just not in the know about what's happening with my stuff, then at the end of the day there's small problems popping up all the time. 29:34 And because I'm inattentive, because I'm inattentive, the small problems become big problems. 29:38 So rabosai, do you understand, do you understand what a beautiful kiss the Ribono shel Olam is giving us on the first day of Rosh Chodesh Elul? 29:49 There are so many things that we have to accomplish over this month, so many things we have to do. 29:55 We have to focus on how much good we do, focus on how much Hakadosh Baruch Hu loves us, focus on how much ultimately the Ribono shel Olam wants a conversation and wants a relationship with us. 30:03 But one of the things we're also obligated to do is to go out into the personalistic field and see what's going on. 30:12 What's happening? Because all too often we love to live life in a complete state of oblivion. 30:20 Because if I don't know that there's a problem, then there must be no problem. 30:23 If I don't see it, it doesn't exist. 30:26 And we go through life pretending like everything is okay until one day the pipe bursts. 30:32 And it always bursts. 30:34 And then I have no choice but to deal with the catastrophic situation that is in front of me, and then already it's a three-alarm fire, then it's an emergency, then the field is totally flooded, and I don't even know what 30:47 to do, and there's destruction and there's loss. 30:50 But if I take the time every day, you know what we call this? 30:53 We call this in Chasidus and in the Sefarim, it's called cheshbon hanefesh. 30:57 It's called cheshbon hanefesh. Cheshbon hanefesh means I go out every single day, even just for a couple of minutes, to go out into the field, to go out into the field, and just look, what's going on? 31:13 What's going on? And inevitably, if you do a good enough inspection, you'll find, always find something, because there's always something that needs to be tweaked, there's always something that maybe got a little loose and needs to be, needs to be 31:24 loose, tightened, thank you. 31:28 Right? There's always something that needs a little bit of repair. 31:32 Let's say, that's Elul. 31:33 That's Elul. Elul, you know, in the Ba'al HaTanya refers to Elul as Hamelech BaSadeh. 31:39 You know on Rosh Hashanah, on Rosh Hashanah the King is on His throne, and all of us go to the King. 31:44 Elul, the Ba'al HaTanya says, is Hamelech BaSadeh, the King comes into the field, the King comes to us. 31:51 Why does the King—I always wonder, like, why Hamelech BaSadeh? 31:53 Why the field? The field is where—because this is what Chazal are telling us, because the King comes to where He wants me to be. 32:00 He wants me to be basadeh, He wants me to be in my fields, He wants me to be looking at everything that's happening. 32:05 He wants me to be inspecting the personalistic property. 32:08 And, rabbosai, this is the avodah ultimately of Chodesh Elul, to carve out—and again, you don't need an hour, even three minutes, five minutes, you could set a timer, just to close your eyes. 32:20 You know, somebody asked me, you know, they said, \"What was like the best part of Eretz Yisrael?\" There's no best part of Eretz Yisrael, but I will tell you, happened to be the place, the place where we stayed, that the mirpeset, the 32:33 balcony, overlooked Har HaBayis. Har HaBayis, the best part, the best part was literally just to sit and stare at Har HaBayis. 32:44 Just to sit and stare. 32:46 It wasn't the this, it wasn't the that, just to sit and stare. 32:50 Because something beautiful happens when you sit and stare: you begin to think, you begin to think about things that you haven't thought about for a very long time, you begin to contemplate things that you haven't contemplated for a very long 33:00 time, and there's something profoundly cathartic, and there's something profoundly, profoundly powerful about it. 33:06 And, rabbosai, that's our avodah. 33:07 It's our avodah all the time, but it's specifically during Chodesh Elul. 33:10 Let's go out into the field, let's go out and inspect the properties, let's go out and just take a couple minutes. 33:16 It's not about cheit, it's not about sin, it's not about Ashamnu Bagadnu, it's not—it's not any of that. 33:21 It's just about, we have so much in life and we do so much in life, but just like your business, no one is not showing up to work because they say, \"Ah, Chaim Yankel's got it, right? 33:31 The foreman's got it.\" Any good businessman, I would assume—I'm not a business—any good businessman I would assume still at some point has to be on top of what's going on in his business. 33:39 If it's true with my business, על אחת כמה וכמה true with the greatest enterprise of my life, and the greatest enterprise of my life is me. 33:45 Because that's the thing I create, that's the thing I build, that's the thing I nurture and I nourish. 33:50 And all it takes is a couple of minutes each day to see what's going on inside my fields, inside my possessions. 33:57 Inevitably we'll find something. 33:59 And if we could find the little things before they become big things, then, rabbosai, then we are truly setting ourselves up for dramatic success. 34:06 Let's go weiter. Says the Gemara, אמר רב אידי בר אבין אמר רב יצחק בר אשיאן: mayim rishonim, rabbosai, these are all great sugyas. 34:12 So, again, bottom line, how long, how long do we have to wait between fleishigs and milchigs? 34:18 Okay, it's a machlokes. 34:19 We'll get into more of the sugya, but at least now you know where the machlokes comes from. 34:23 It all comes from Mar Ukva, where Mar Ukva says, bottom line is I can't eat milchigs and fleishigs on the same day—I can't—I'm sorry, in the same meal, but I could eat them in two separate meals. 34:33 What's the definition of two separate meals? 34:35 Okay, that remains to be seen. 34:38 Says the Gemara, אמר רב אידי בר אבין אמר רב יצחק בר אשיאן: mayim rishonim mitzvah. 34:42 This is what we're going to see, rabbosai: mayim rishonim. 34:42 Now, mayim rishonim is what we call washing before you eat bread. 34:46 That is a mitzvah. Ve'achronim chovah. Mayim achronim—oh, rabbosai, sugya mayim achronim. Mayim achronim, again, is quite literally the washing we do right before, right before we bench. 34:55 So the Gemara says that's an obligation. 34:57 Okay, now, interesting the difference between a mitzvah... 35:00 and a chovah. It's not, it's not immediately clear what the distinction is. 35:05 So the Gemara says Meisivei So the braisa says Mayim Rishonim and Achronim are obligation. 35:12 Emtza'im? Now again I must say this is interesting. 35:15 Emtza'im was they used to wash between one cooked food and another cooked food, between tavshil and tavshil. 35:22 That's a reshut. So the Gemara says mitzvah legabei reshut chovah kari lei. 35:27 Okay, because when it comes to a mitzvah, a mitzvah when comparing it to a reshut is called a chovah because that's more symmetrical lashon. 35:34 So let's analyze this a bit more. 35:36 Gufa. Rabosai, second wide line. 35:38 Gufa. The braisa said Mayim Rishonim when you wash before bread and Mayim Achronim that's obligatory but ultimately Emtza'im, the middle, the middle washing waters, that's a reshut. 35:48 So the Gemara says okay, we'll analyze this a bit more. 35:51 נוטלין בין בכלי בין על גבי קרקע. So what's interesting, Mayim Rishonim when you wash for bread, so Rabosai, there you could wash into a utensil or you could wash on the ground. 36:02 Doesn't matter, doesn't matter. 36:04 אין נוטלין אלא בכלי. This is very interesting. 36:07 Mayim Achronim can only be done into a utensil. 36:12 Which Rabosai, by the way, it's not by accident that like the little Mayim Achronim things, right, they always have a receptacle on the bottom. 36:18 Mayim Achronim has to be done into a receptacle as we'll see why in just a moment. 36:21 V'amrei lei, אין נוטלין אלא בכלי v'amrei lei אין נוטלין אלא על גבי קרקע. 36:27 Others say ultimately again no, they could only be done on karka. 36:31 So mai beinaihu? So Rabosai what's the nafka mina over here? 36:34 Ika beinaihu kintza is woodchips. Woodchips. 36:37 Can you go ahead, can you go ahead and wash Mayim Achronim into woodchips as well? 36:42 So the one who says it has to be on karka, well woodchips aren't karka. 36:46 But the one who says ultimately again be'kli, maybe it could be done with kintza. 36:48 Okay, so Rabosai, we're going to see, we'll see why this is in just a moment, what the issue is. 36:53 מים ראשונים נוטלין בין בחמין בין בצונן. Furthermore, Mayim Rishonim which is again Rabosai, so just a word about this. 36:59 Remember the reason we wash before bread, why do we wash before bread? 37:02 Because halacha l'maaseh again this was about terumah. 37:05 Right, this was all this was a rabbinic enactment in order to safeguard the sanctity of terumah. 37:10 That's washing before bread. 37:11 We'll get into that more a little bit later. 37:13 Mayim Achronim, it's not clear why we're washing it. 37:16 The Gemara did not tell us why we're washing it, but be'pashtus I would think without any explanation the reason I'm washing Mayim Achronim is cleanliness. 37:23 Right, your hands get fashmutzed over the course of the meal. 37:26 You want to wash your hands before you recite Bircat Hamazon and that's it. 37:30 That's what we're assuming now, but we're not finished. 37:33 מים ראשונים נוטלין בין בחמין בין בצונן. Mayim Rishonim, you wash with warm water or with cold water. 37:37 It doesn't make a difference. 37:38 אין נוטלין אלא בצונן. This is very interesting. 37:41 Mayim Achronim could only be done with cold water מפני שחמין מפעפעין את הידיים ואין מעבירין את הזוהמא. 37:47 Because again, here the Gemara is assuming that the reason I'm washing Mayim Achronim is to remove shmutz. 37:53 So imagine Rabosai you have grease on your hands. 37:56 Cold water better removes grease. 37:58 Right, warm water, warm water softens the skin and often the grease seeps in a bit more. 38:04 So therefore because the whole of Mayim Achronim is to remove shmutz, therefore halacha l'maaseh it could only be done with cold water. 38:11 Okay, we're not finished. 38:11 מים ראשונים נוטלין בין בחמין בין בצונן. Okay, אמר רבי יצחק בר יוסף אמר רבי ינאי. Lo shanu ela, so Rabosai, last last line, last line on ק\"ה עמוד א, so Rabbi Yitzchak bar Yosef said like this. 38:23 When we say that you could use either cold water or hot water for Mayim Rishonim, that's only לא שנו אלא שאין היד סולדת בו. 38:29 Amud bet. אבל היד סולדת בהן אין נוטלין בהן. But ultimately again, but Rabosai listen to this. 38:37 But you can't use yad soledet bo water. 38:40 Now yad soledet bo water is hot water, hot enough ultimately again that the hand would recoil. 38:45 Okay, so you can't use it. 38:47 Now Rabosai, why can't you use let's say I have a very high pain threshold, why can't I use yad soledet bo? 38:52 So this is interesting, Rashi points out over here and he says מכיון אם היד סולדת בהן בטלו ונשתנו מתורת מים. 39:01 Interesting, Rashi says any water that you can't wash with doesn't have the din of water. 39:06 Interesting. So therefore you can't use mayim, yad soledet bo water for Mayim Rishonim. 39:11 Okay, v'ika de'masni a'seifa. Others explain this on the seifa. 39:14 אין נוטלין אלא בצונן. You could only go ahead and wash Mayim Achronim ultimately again with cold water. 39:22 Aval be'chamin lo. But you can't use hot water for Mayim Achronim. 39:25 אמר רבי יצחק בר יוסף אמר רבי ינאי לא שנו אלא שיד סולדת בהן, אבל אין יד סולדת בהן נוטלין. When did we say you can't use hot water for Mayim Achronim? 39:33 What type of hot water? 39:34 Yad soledet bo hot water. But just if it's if it's hot but it's not yad soledet bo, you could use it for Mayim Achronim. 39:40 מכלל דראשונים אף על פי שיד סולדת בהן מותר. Which Rabosai indicates to us that what? 39:46 That halacha l'maaseh when it comes to Mayim Rishonim you could use any temperature you want. 39:52 So based on this last version, halacha l'maaseh for Mayim Rishonim right before you eat bread, use any temperature you want. 39:59 Mayim Achronim, Mayim Achronim... ultimately again you could use cold or hot but not yad soledes bo. Amtzaim reshus. 40:08 Now the washing you do kind of in between courses or in between foods that's a reshus or אמרינן לא שנו אלא בין תבשיל לתבשיל. 40:14 That's only between one cooked food and another cooked food אבל בין תבשיל לגבינה חובה. 40:19 But again if you're going let's say again between milchiks and fleishiks as we spoke about before then halacha l'maiseh that washing is obligatory. 40:25 So this goes back to our first sugya of the day that sometimes when going from milchiks to fleishiks you may require kinuach, hadocha as well as hand washing. 40:34 But again we'll have to see that halacha l'maisa. 40:36 mipnei mah... so here it is. 40:40 מפני מה אמרו מים אחרונים חובה? Raboisai, why is mayim acharonim obligatory? 40:45 The Gemara says שמלח סדומית יש שמסמא את העיניים. 40:50 Wow. Because Raboisai there is a thing called sodomite salt. 40:55 Salt from stone. Salt from stone which is very dangerous and apparently again if it comes in contact with the eyes it could cause blindness. 41:05 So again Raboisai interestingly enough therefore what did Chazal say? 41:08 Chazal therefore said because again sometimes you don't know what salt you're using let's say some Melach Sdomis... 41:13 apparently Melach Sdomis is not dangerous if you ingest it. 41:18 It's only dangerous if you touch your eyes to it if you touch it to your eyes. 41:21 So therefore in order to ensure that a person does not chas v'shalom suffer any type of eye ailment Chazal said wash your hands before you go ahead and bench. 41:31 And bench, go therefore it's a sakana issue. 41:34 Amar Abaye, umishtachach bekurta bekuren and sometimes again even a minute amount of Melach Sdomis even just a small amount right literally again one little kernel in a quart of salt could even be dangerous as well. 41:49 So Raboisai this is actually quite interesting. 41:52 This is actually quite interesting. 41:54 So the Gemara says so again so the Gemara says אמר ליה רב אחא בריה דרבא לרב אשי, kol milcha mai? 41:59 What about salt in general? 42:01 Right let's say again what happens if you measured salt let's say you're not eating but you're just measuring salt is there an obligation ultimately again of some type of washing there as well? 42:10 אמר ליה ולא מיבעיא. Yes of course. 42:12 In other words anytime you're handling salt and there's the potential that the salt that you're handling is potentially Melach Sdomis that requires some type of washing. 42:20 Incredible. So Raboisai I just want to point out this is actually very interesting because again mayim acharonim is one of those things where many people don't do it. 42:28 Right the Yakkas, the Yakkas don't do it at all. 42:31 Right they don't do it at all and in fact they're often offended if you offer it to them like calm down guys calm down you don't have to do it right. 42:37 Right but l'maiseh it's fascinating to see it's fascinating to see that it's not necessarily across the board which is fascinating because when you look at the Gemara the Gemara seems to be pretty abundantly clear that this is an explicit obligation 42:51 that needs to be done and there's an element of sakana. 42:54 So what happened to mayim acharonim we'll discuss a bit more tomorrow. 42:57 Amar Abaye. Abaye says Raboisai, first wide line. 43:04 So Abaye said in the beginning I used to think that the reason why we don't wash mayim acharonim over the ground is because ultimately the water becomes like putrid because it becomes gross because it has food residue on it it just 43:14 becomes gross. אמר ליה מר משום דשריא רוח רעה עלייהו. No that's actually that's not the issue rather the issue is that ultimately again there's a ruach ra'a. 43:23 There's some type of spirit of impurity that rests over that water that makes it problematic. 43:29 Raboisai, so much for my Kabbalah for the first day. 43:32 Alright good good. Sometimes all you could do is try all you could do is try Raboisai incredible don't worry tomorrow tomorrow's great right im yirtzeh Hashem tomorrow daf beis a shorter it'll be great again and also tomorrow first day Rosh Chodesh Elul im yirtzeh Hashem but what a 43:46 start what a start what an end to Av what a start to Elul im yirtzeh Hashem the journey continues tomorrow shkoiach everyone.
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