Transcript Translit עברית
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0:02 All right, Shavua tov. I say good morning, good morning, gut voch, Baruch Hashem. 0:20 A great zechus to begin a new week together, first full week of Chodesh Elul. 0:24 Incredible things are going to be happening, Im yirtzeh Hashem. 0:26 Begin by thanking all of our sponsors for this morning's shiur. 0:30 To thank our tamchoi sponsors for the month of אלול הבא עלינו לטובה ולברכה, the Shonfeld family for dedicating all the shiurim and drashos this month le'ilui nishmas their husband and father, Mr. 0:40 Heshy Shonfeld, צבי מאיר בן משה הלוי, zichrono livracha. 0:44 May his legacy of living each day besimcha inspire us to find joy in every day, appreciate the blessings around us, and see the goodness in all that life has to offer. 0:54 Justin and Abigail Rosemore for dedicating all the shiurim and drashos this month with tremendous gratitude to the entire kehillah and Im yirtzeh Hashem may all our tefillos be answered over the coming Yamim Noraim. 1:06 Leah Sol for dedicating all the shiurim and drashos this month in recognition of the entire kehillah and in the zechus of a continued refuah sheleimah for Ilana bas Esther. 1:14 Baruch Meir and Rita Dubin, le'ilui nishmas הרב תנחום גרשון בן משה, with tremendous gratitude to Hakadosh Baruch Hu for a year of beautiful family simchas. 1:23 May our tefillos in Elul bring about the ultimate redemption with the coming of Moshiach bimherah beyameinu, Amen. 1:28 Our week of learning sponsors, Meirone and Bria Samuel, with a refuah sheleimah, הרב משה בן חנה. 1:33 Daf Yomi sponsors, Ayal and Sarah Steinberg, in the zechus of continued refuah sheleimah for Chana bas Sasha and for an ultimate refuah sheleimah, and by Greg and Rena Trustman in recognition of the yahrtzeit of Greg's mother, Dorie Trustman, דורה ריבא בת העשל, zichrona livracha. 1:51 May it be that in the merit of our Talmud Torah, all of the neshamos have an aliyah, the families be nichuma, all those in need of a refuah sheleimah, together with kol cholei Yisrael. 1:58 We should be zocheh Im yirtzeh Hashem to a month, to a year of kesiva vachasima tova and Im yirtzeh Hashem berachos uvisoros tovos for all of Am Yisrael and Eretz Yisrael. Rabosai, with that, let us begin. 2:06 Today's daf is kuf ches, 108, but we are actually picking up at the Mishnah on the bottom of קוף זיין עמוד בית, 107B, bottom Mishnah. 2:15 צורר אדם בשר וגבינה במטפחת אחת ובלבד שלא יהו נוגעים זה בזה. So an interesting halacha. 2:20 You could wrap up meat and milk in metpachas literally means like in the same cloth. 2:27 So if you could imagine, you have a piece of meat, you have a piece of cheese, you want to transport it, so you want to wrap it up together in the same cloth. 2:34 The Mishnah says no problem as long as they are not touching each other. 2:38 Okay. רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר שני אכסנאין אוכלין על שלחן אחד זה בשר וזה גבינה ואין חוששין. Rabban Shimon ben Gamliel says, two achsenayim literally means two visitors. 2:50 But really in this context what it means is two strangers. 2:53 Two strangers, two people who don't know each other, one can eat meat, one can eat milk at the same table and there is no problem and ein chosheshin means we're not concerned. 3:02 We're not concerned for what? 3:03 We're not concerned that Reuven's, right, Reuven's gonna eat from Shimon's gevinah and Shimon's gonna eat from Reuven's basar. 3:11 Why aren't we concerned? 3:12 Why aren't we concerned? 3:14 Because they don't know each other. 3:15 So because they don't know each other, again, remember rabosai, going back for just a moment. 3:19 The issue of bringing basar bechalav on the same table is either if I'm one person and I have both meat and milk on the same table, that's a concern obviously because I may inadvertently come to eat it, or if two people 3:30 who know each other and have a relationship with each other, again, so it wouldn't be strange for me to reach over to my friend's plate, my friend to reach over to my plate and share food like that. 3:40 But if two separate people who have no relationship with each other, one's eating meat, one's eating milk, there's no problem for them to sit at the same table together because we're not concerned they're going to share food. 3:52 So two separate halachos brought down in this Mishnah. 3:55 Halacha number one, you could wrap meat and milk together, meat and cheese in the same cloth together and rabosai I neglected to mention today, gimmel Elul is the yahrtzeit of הרב אברהם יצחק הכהן קוק, זכר צדיק וקדוש לברכה. 4:29 The gadlus of Rav Kook, the true gadlus that Rav Kook had many, Rav Kook was a fascinating personality but what Rav Kook teaches us more than anything is ahavas Yisrael. 4:39 Rav Kook had tremendous, tremendous respect and admiration even for the early settlers, right, the early Zionist movement, where many of the people who built Eretz Yisrael, who built what we have today, were not necessarily affiliated, not necessarily connected and Rav Kook 4:56 understood that these people were engaged in such beautiful holy work, which is Why by the way, amazingly enough, Rav Kook was often invited to speak at many of the secular kibbutzim, which was like fascinating, fascinating. 5:10 Ever see pictures of Rav Kook? Rav Kook was a tzaddik, Rav Kook was a chasid, Rav Kook was a talmid chacham. 5:18 But fascinatingly enough, he was invited to go ahead and speak at the secular kibbutzim, because he was machshiv them, because he understood that of course he didn't agree with their religious or lack of religious way of life, but he saw 5:32 the beauty and the holiness of what they were doing and he understood that they were value-added to Klal Yisrael. 5:38 And rabosai again that's that's the leadership we need, right? 5:42 And that's the hashkafa we need. 5:44 Every Jew serves a purpose, every Jew has a tachlis. 5:48 Not every Jew is the same, but the ability to see the kedusha, the holiness in what everyone contributes to the totality of Klal Yisrael, that's the legacy of Rav Kook and halevai the legacy we should internalize in ourselves as well. 5:59 In any event, so going back to the Gemara, the Gemara says I don't understand, what's the problem even if you wrap meat and cheese together in the same cloth, so even if they're touching each other who cares? 6:09 It's cold, it's cold. 6:11 And if it's cold what's what's the big deal? 6:14 To which the Gemara says tzoni b'tzoni. 6:16 אמר אביי האי דקליפה לא בעי הדחה מי לא בעי? Okay it's true, if you have cold meat that touches cold cheese, rabosai again, so do you have to remove a layer of either of them before you're consuming it? 6:28 No. But what do you have to do? 6:30 You have to wipe it off. 6:32 If you if you accidentally put a piece of cold meat on top of a piece of cold cheese, are both of them edible? 6:38 Absolutely. You could eat it, but you do have to wipe off the surface of the meat and you have to wipe off the surface of the cheese because of the shmutz, right, because of potential residue. 6:47 So therefore again all the Gemara is saying is lechatchila you shouldn't do that. 6:51 Right, okay, if you did it there's a relatively easy remedy, but if you are wrapping meat and cheese in the same cloth it is important to go ahead and to make sure that they are not touching each other. 7:02 Incredible. Next. רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר שני אכסנאין אוכלין על שלחן אחד. Next halacha in the Mishnah was רבן שמעון בן גמליאל said two strangers, two strangers could eat meat and milk at the same table and because there is no prior relationship we are not concerned that they will come to inadvertently share 7:21 their food. אמר רב חנן בר אמי אמר שמואל לא שנו אלא שאין מכירין זה את זה. So this when are we talking about where these two people don't know each other? 7:31 They don't know each other. 7:32 So because they don't know each other there's no concern that they're going to come to share food with each other. 7:36 אבל מכירין זה את זה אסור. But if they know each other, right, if they recognize each other, so the Gemara says assur. 7:42 Then it's assur. Then it's assur. 7:44 Because again rabosai what's the concern? 7:46 The concern is that inadvertently, inadvertently we're going to share food because we're familiar with each other we're going to share food. 7:53 Tanya nami hachi. A braisa supports this. 7:54 רבן שמעון בן גמליאל אומר ב' אכסנאין שנתארחו לפונדק אחד. If you have two again rabosai achsanai literally means visitors, but two travelers who happen to be at the same inn, אחד בא מן הצפון וזה בא מן הדרום. 8:07 One comes from the north, one comes from the south, meaning the point over here is they don't know each other. 8:12 זה בא בחתיכתו וזה בא בגבינתו. Reuven is coming with his steak and Shimon is coming with his block of cheese. 8:20 אוכלין על שלחן אחד. Right, they can eat at the same table. 8:24 זה בשר וזה גבינה. And Reuven can eat his meat and Shimon can eat his cheese. 8:28 V'ein chosheshin and ultimately again we're not choshesh, we're not we're not worried that they're going to come to share their food with each other. 8:36 Why not? Why not? 8:38 Because they don't know each other. 8:40 ולא אסרו אלא בתפיסה אחת. The only thing that Chazal were concerned was tefisa achas. 8:46 Now tefisa achas literally means one bundle. 8:49 So the Gemara says תפיסה אחת סלקא דעתך? 8:51 What do you mean one bundle? 8:52 You putting the meat and cheese in one bundle? 8:53 No. אלא כעין תפיסה אחת. Rather what it means ultimately again is like one bundle. 8:59 What does it mean like one bundle? 9:00 When you have two people who know each other and are sitting at the same table, one person eating meat, one person eating cheese, that triggers a halachic alarm, right? 9:11 That says we are concerned that they're going to inadvertently come to share their food with each other. 9:18 So the Gemara goes vayter. Rabosai this we'll we'll finish up the sugya then we'll point out this is actually a very important sugya because rabosai this this happens, I mean I don't know if it happens all the time, but it certainly 9:28 happens commonly enough, right, where in in a family you have people wanting different things for dinner. 9:34 Right, so this one's going to sit down, you know, with their hamburger, this one's going to sit down with their macaroni and cheese, but it's nice to have the family together at a table if possible. 9:44 What what do you do in circumstances like that? 9:46 So just understand that this is a real halacha lema'aseh. 9:48 We'll come back to it in just a moment, we're not finished yet. 9:51 So the Gemara says as follows. 9:51 אמר ליה רב ירמיה בר אבא לאביי. Listen to this. 9:54 שני אחין ומקפידין זה על זה. Okay, rabosai this is incredible. 9:59 There's a tragic case. 10:01 What happens if you have two brothers but they don't get along? 10:04 מקפידין זה על זה. Now מקפידין זה על זה literally means they're makpid on each other. 10:10 In other words, they don't share food. 10:12 They don't share food which is representing a certain type of relationship that these brothers have. 10:18 So Rabbosai, what a tragic case. 10:19 What happens if you have two brothers and the brothers don't get along? 10:24 So now what's the Gemara's shayla? 10:25 The Gemara is saying like this: up until now the construct we've had was the following: that if two people know each other, they can't sit at the same table and one eats meat and one eats milk. 10:37 Now by the way, when we say that they can't eat at the same table, what does that mean? 10:41 They can't eat at the same table without some type of heker, without some type of reminder that one is eating meat and one is eating milk. 10:50 So what happens though if you have two brothers, but the brothers don't get along? 10:55 Brothers don't get along. 10:56 So how do we look at that case? 10:57 On one hand, do they know each other? 10:59 Do they know each other? 11:00 Yes. But are they going to share food with each other? 11:03 No, because unfortunately the brothers don't like each other. 11:07 So can they sit at the same table? 11:10 Can they sit at the same table and one eat meat and one eat milk? 11:14 Incredible. So the Gemara says mahu? Amarei lei. 11:18 So he responded to him, יאמרו כל הסריקין אסורין וסריקי בייתוס מותרין. 11:22 So Rabbosai, this is a Talmudic expression. 11:24 Let me give you the background of this. 11:25 We've seen this many times. 11:28 So Rabbosai, the halacha is the following: the halacha is when it comes to matzah on Pesach, you cannot make designs on matzah. 11:37 In other words, let's say you decided you wanted to make, I don't know, a Magen David, right? 11:44 As you can see I was going to say Beis HaMikdash, right? 11:47 You want to make Magen David matzos, right? 11:50 Sounds like a good Jewish brand, right? 11:52 Magen David. Magen David matzos, you want to make a Magen David or for that matter again, you know, you have a great idea, you really want to engage the kids in the Pesach Seder, so you've decided that you're going to make a picture of each kid 12:02 on their respective matzos, right? 12:04 And you have this great plan and you could do it under 18 minutes, it's going to be fantastic. 12:08 The halacha is we do not make any type of images or any type of designs on matzah. 12:14 For a very simple reason: what are we concerned about? 12:16 What are we concerned about? 12:17 Chametz. Chametz. So Rabbosai, so amazingly enough, there was this particular baker, Boethus. Boethus had a great idea. 12:25 He made a mold. 12:27 He made a mold, so you don't have to lose any time making designs. 12:31 Essentially what you just saw this, by the way, I'm sure this is not a new thing, I just saw it for the first time in the shuk, where it was actually a mold for challahs. 12:40 So in other words, instead of spending the time braiding challah, you just take the dough, you put it in the mold, and it makes the top look like it's braided but the rest of it is just, I'm sure this is 12:50 not a new thing. 12:51 But I was like, great. 12:53 So in other words, so Boethus, Boethus had... 12:56 I don't get out much, I'm just saying. 12:58 So to me these new things are like, wow, incredible. 13:04 So Boethus, Boethus came up with this mold. 13:08 He had this mold, so essentially just put the matzah on the mold, and essentially it just presses on an image. 13:14 No time lost, nothing. 13:16 So the Gemara essentially said you can't do that. 13:19 Why can't you do that? 13:20 Because people don't... what are you going to say? 13:22 All other matzah imaging is going to be assur, but the imaging of Boethus is going to be mutar? 13:29 You can't do that. 13:30 You can't do that. 13:31 So the Gemara is saying over here is the same idea, same concept. 13:34 What are you going to say? 13:35 If brothers talk to each other, then they can't eat milk and meat at the same table. 13:40 And if they don't get along with each other they can eat? 13:42 You can't do that. 13:44 The halacha is if people know each other, they can't eat meat and milk at the same table. 13:48 They get along, they don't get along, you can't start splicing halacha like that. 13:53 L'taameich, by using that logic, Rabbosai, now listen to this. 14:04 The halacha is you're not allowed to launder clothing on chol hamoed. 14:08 You're not allowed to, right? 14:10 You can't do laundry on chol hamoed. 14:11 This fits into the general motif that you're not supposed to do melacha, unnecessary melacha on chol hamoed. 14:17 So you shouldn't do laundry on chol hamoed. 14:20 However, if somebody only has one article of clothing, let's say a person has one cloak, one tunic, and you need it, it got dirty, you could launder that on chol hamoed. 14:31 מי שאין לו אלא חלוק אחד מותר לכבסו בחול המועד. But here's the problem. 14:35 Yomru, top of kuf chet. 14:38 יאמרו כל הסריקין אסורין וסריקי בייתוס מותרין. Here is the problem. 14:42 The problem is how does anyone know that? 14:45 How do you know when a person's laundering their tunic, how do you know who has one tunic versus who has three tunics? 14:51 So if I see Reuven laundering his tunic, I'm just going to assume that halacha le-ma'aseh laundering is mutar. 14:58 To which the Gemara says, no, no, no. 15:00 Hasam amar... מר בר רב אשי אזורא מוכיח עליו. There by the tunic case though, Rabosai, it's different. 15:05 Isn't it interesting? An interesting Rashi points out and this is a little lesson in tunic fashion. 15:11 Generally, if you had more than one tunic, you use the same belt. 15:14 You had one belt, you had one belt, and you would move it from tunic to tunic. 15:18 So if you see a guy wearing the same belt, different tunics, you know that it's a different tunic. 15:21 When a guy had one tunic, so ultimately again he would launder the belt along with the tunic. 15:29 So therefore again if you saw the belt being laundered, that indicated that he was laundering the only one tunic that he had. 15:35 Okay, and therefore halacha lema'aseh the Gemara says that's not a raya. 15:38 But bottom line what the Gemara says is like this: when it comes to רבן שמעון בן גמליאל, the halacha is that if people know each other, they cannot eat meat and milk at the same time. 15:48 They're brothers and they get along, they're brothers, they don't get along, we're not getting into that level of detail. 15:53 If you know each other, you can't eat meat and milk at the same time. 15:57 You don't know each other, you can eat meat and milk at the same time for we are not concerned that you're going to come to inadvertently share with each other. 16:07 So Rabosai, so what do we do with this halacha, halacha lema'aseh? 16:10 So now again my family's sitting down for dinner, which halvai we should all be makpid our family should sit down for dinner together, and now this one wants macaroni and cheese, this one wants a hamburger, but we all want to 16:20 sit down. So what do we do? 16:21 So Rabosai, there's a very simple remedy which is a heker. 16:25 A heker, there must be some type of recognizable siman on the table so that people do not come to inadvertently share food with each other. 16:34 It could be something as simple as a place mat. 16:37 A place mat, right? 16:39 The fleishig eaters get a place mat, the milchig eaters don't get a place mat. 16:44 Milchig eaters in general are second class citizens, right? 16:46 I'm just saying, right? 16:47 So the milchig eaters they, so the fleishig gets a place mat, milchig doesn't get a place mat, or vice versa. 16:53 In other words, the idea over here is there just has to be something that is there so that if I'm eating fleishigs, I'm not just going to reach over to the milchig eater's plate and grab something off there. 17:07 So as long as there's something recognizable on the table, and by the way, it could be a pitcher, it could be a vase of flowers, something that's not normally there to indicate that there's a shift in the meal. 17:19 As long as there is something that would give someone pause before reaching over to the plate of the other, that is good to go. 17:26 But halacha lema'aseh, halacha lema'aseh, if you're going ahead and if halacha lema'aseh you're going ahead and you are sitting at a table with people you don't know, then halacha lema'aseh there is no problem. 17:39 So Rabosai, I'll tell you where this comes up and this is good because it's a shtickel still the vacation season. 17:43 Right, I'm out at a park with my family, I'm at a picnic table, there's another family there, Jewish, not Jewish, maybe eating treif for barbecue, and treif, they're doing whatever. 17:54 Can I sit at that table with people eating non-kosher or again another family eating milchig while I'm eating fleishig? 18:00 And the answer to that is yes, because again if you have no shaychus to the other people eating, there's no concern of food sharing. 18:08 Okay, incredible. Rabosai shkoiyach. Now we get to another new sugya, this is an incredible sugya in basar bechalav. 18:14 Says the Mishna, טיפת חלב שנפל על החתיכה. 18:17 So watch this. If you have a drop of milk that fell on a piece of meat. 18:24 So Rabosai so now drop of milk that fell on a piece of meat, אם יש בה בנותן טעם באותה חתיכה אסור. 18:30 Now Rabosai so what the Mishna's introducing us to, what the Mishna's introducing me to is something very interesting over here, which is when that drop of milk fell, now we're talking about a specific case over here where the drop of 18:42 milk didn't just stam fall into the pot, but I see it sitting on top of a particular piece of meat. 18:49 So what the Mishna says is what we look at first is the ratio of the drop of milk to the piece of meat. 18:57 So literally translated, if there's enough milk to infuse taste into the piece of meat, then the piece of meat becomes assur. 19:06 Now for our purposes, what does that mean? 19:08 Again the way we translate that is shishim. Shishim, we look at that drop of milk vis-a-vis the piece of meat. 19:15 If there's 60 times more meat than the drop of milk, we're good to go, we ignore it. 19:19 We ignore it. If however again there's not 60 times more meat, then the piece of meat itself becomes assur. 19:25 Take a quick look at the first Rashi in the Mishna. 19:27 טיפת חלב שנפל על החתיכה בתוך הקדירה אחת מן החתיכות ולא הגיס את הקדירה ולא נחלק טעם הטיפה אלא לאותה חתיכה בלבד. So this is an interesting case. 19:45 So again Rabosai, this is very specific and not a classic case. 19:48 Classic case is usually where the drop of milk just falls into the pot. 19:51 Here the drop of milk fell on a particular piece, I haven't stirred the pot, so therefore the issue I have over here is the drop of milk vis-a-vis that piece. 20:00 If there's enough milk to infuse taste into the piece, the piece is going to be asser. Nier sakidera, however, if you stirred the pot then, Rabosai, then at that case we're not looking at the drop of milk just vis-a-vis the piece, but 20:18 rather we're looking at the drop of milk vis-a-vis the entire pot. 20:26 אם יש בה בנותן טעם באותה קדרה אסור. Then we measure the drop of milk vis-a-vis the pot and not vis-a-vis the piece of meat. 20:34 Two different cases: drop of milk sitting on top of the piece of meat, we'll measure the drop of milk vis-a-vis the piece of meat. 20:41 If you stirred the pot we'll measure the drop of milk vis-a-vis the entire pot. 20:46 Incredible. So let's analyze this. 20:48 Really interesting sugya. Amar Abaye, Abaye says what you see from here, טעמו ולא ממשו בעלמא דאורייתא. 20:54 Abaye says what you see from this Gemara, what you see from this Mishnah, this halacha, is that biblically speaking we recognize the power of taste, ta'am. 21:04 Because Rabosai, remember again, when you have a drop of milk going ahead and falling on a piece of meat, that drop of milk is going to disappear relatively quickly. 21:16 So what am I left with? 21:17 I'm left with taste. 21:19 So what do you see from here? 21:20 That ta'am, the way we call this in halacha, is ta'am k'ikar. Ta'am k'ikar means that flavor, bless you, flavor is just as halachically meaningful and recognizable as the actual item itself. 21:37 Good. So the Gemara says, and again that's obvious from this case of milk. 21:46 די סלקא דעתך דרבנן מבשר בחלב מאי טעמא לא גמרינן. Because if you thought that again this is just a din derabbanan, so I would say, well how could it be derabbanan? 21:53 Look at bassar b'chalav. Pretty much every single case of bassar b'chalav is a case of what we call ta'am k'ikar where we're focusing on flavor. 22:01 Because when milk falls into meat, the milk disappears very quickly. 22:06 Rabosai, contrast that for example of let's say a case of kosher meat or non-kosher, a piece of non-kosher meat that falls into a pot of kosher meat. 22:14 So there the non-kosher meat is there, right? 22:16 The actual cheftza of the issur is there. 22:20 In any case of milk and meat, by definition the milk evaporates or not evaporates but is absorbed quickly. 22:27 So the Gemara says because if you were to think that ta'am k'ikar is derabbanan, why wouldn't we learn out that ta'am k'ikar is de-Oraisa from bassar b'chalav? 22:34 To which the Gemara says, well maybe bassar b'chalav is different. 22:38 Why is bassar b'chalav different? 22:40 D'chiddush hu. And again Rabosai, because bassar b'chalav is a chiddush. 22:43 Now what's the chiddush? 22:44 What's the novelty of bassar b'chalav? 22:46 What's the great novelty? 22:48 They're both mutar. Right? 22:49 If you think about it, Rabosai, nowhere else in halacha do you have a concept like this of two items which are independently mutar but yet when you combine them they become asser. 23:02 Milk is mutar, bassar is mutar, both on their own, but yet when you combine them together suddenly now they become asser. 23:08 The truth is there is another example of that. 23:10 What's the other example of that? 23:11 All of these other forbidden mixture things, like sha'atnez is like that, kilayim is like that. 23:18 But remember this is all part of the same genre. 23:20 These things are really all part of the same family. 23:23 So therefore perhaps because bassar b'chalav is a chiddush I can't really learn out anything from bassar b'chalav. 23:30 To which the Gemara says אי חידוש הוא אף על גב דליכא נותן טעם נמי. 23:35 But if bassar b'chalav is a chiddush then the truth is it should be asser even if the milk doesn't infuse taste into the meat. 23:41 Amar lei Rava, Rava said no, דרך בישול אסרה תורה. 23:45 No because since the Torah phrases it as לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו, it phrases it as cooking, not simply mixing. 23:54 Therefore by definition infusion of flavor is going to be a necessity ultimately again to go and create prohibition. 24:00 So Rabosai, so point over here that the Gemara is highlighting is the concept of ta'am k'ikar, the concept that flavor is as meaningful as the actual item itself is a biblical concept. 24:13 It's a biblical concept. 24:14 Okay, incredible. So Rabosai, let's analyze this a bit more. 24:17 Amar Rav: כיוון שנתן טעם בחתיכה חתיכה עצמה נעשית נבילה ואוסרת כל החתיכות כולן מפני שהן מינה. Okay so Rabosai, so now watch this. 24:29 This is really fascinating. 24:30 Let's go back to the Mishnah's first case. 24:31 What's the Mishnah's case? 24:32 I have a pot of meat. 24:33 Some milk falls onto one particular piece. 24:37 What did the Mishnah say? 24:38 What do we do? 24:38 How do we analyze the situation? 24:40 We analyze the situation by looking at that piece of meat. 24:42 Is there 60 times more meat, that piece of meat, than the drop of milk? 24:46 If so, I'm good to go. 24:49 But if not, the piece of meat becomes asser. 24:53 Now again Rabosai, now watch this. 24:54 Now Rav says when we say the piece of meat becomes asser, what does that mean? 24:58 That means that now That entire piece of meat is a piece of traif meat. 25:04 That's no different than a piece of chazir. 25:06 It means chazir. And now what's the problem? 25:10 The problem now is in that pot of meat you have one traif piece of meat with a whole pot of other kosher meat. 25:17 Assuming there's not sixty times more meat in the pot, what ends up happening? 25:23 The whole pot becomes assur. 25:24 Now Rabosei, this is predicated, so there's two things happening over here: כיון שנתנה טעם בחתיכה, once the milk infuses flavor into the piece of meat, חתיכה עצמה נעשית נבילה. 25:36 That is a very important phrase. 25:38 The piece of meat, the piece of meat itself now becomes a non-kosher item, becomes like a neveilah, like traif, ואוסרת את כל החתיכות כולן. 25:48 And again Rabosei, remember we had this before. 25:49 You have what we call a min b'mino mixture, a like mixture, mixture of like items. 25:55 And what happens in a mixture of like items? 25:58 Ultimately again, it's not batel, מפני שהוא מינו, and therefore the entire pot becomes assur. 26:04 Entire pot becomes assur. 26:06 Now again, the Gemara says, אמליי מר זוטרא בריה דרב מרי לרבינא. 26:08 So Mar Zutra says to Rav Mari, right, sorry, Mar Zutra brei d'Ravina says to Ravina, hold up, מכדי רב כמאן אמר לשמעתיה, in accordance with whose opinion is that statement being made? 26:21 K'Rabbi Yehuda. That's Rabbi Yehuda. 26:23 What does Rabbi Yehuda say? 26:23 דאמר מין במינו לא בטיל. Now Rabosei, remember again, we had this. 26:29 This is a big machlokes. 26:31 Not everybody agrees with that statement. 26:33 Rabbi Yehuda is the opinion that says min b'mino is not batel. 26:36 He's that opinion, right? 26:37 That when you have a mixture of like items, ultimately again, they're not batel. 26:41 To which the Gemara says, leima pligi d'Rava. 26:44 Now again, say that this argues on Rava. 26:46 What does Rava say? 26:46 דאמר רבא קסבר רבי יהודה כל שהוא מין במינו ודבר אחר. Now watch this, Rabosei. 26:52 Now Rava said that even according to Rabbi Yehuda, when you have what we call מין במינו ודבר אחר, let's say you have a mixture and in the mixture you have like items and also a dissimilar item. 27:04 What do you do? 27:09 סלק את מינו כמי שאינו ושאינו מינו רבה עליו ומבטלו, and then make it a min she-eino mino mixture and allow the unlike item to mevatel the other item. 27:21 Amar lei, so he said, that's fine, אי דנפל ברוטא רקיקא, if the drop of milk would have fallen in liquid gravy, because then you could say meat and liquid gravy is min b'she-eino mino, two dissimilar items. 27:34 Hacha nami, as the Gemara... 27:35 hacha nami, what's the case? 27:37 הכא במאי עסקינן דנפל ברוטא עביא, where it fell into thick gravy. 27:42 And Rabosei, what's the issue with thick gravy? 27:44 Thick gravy has the same status as meat itself. 27:47 Thick gravy is meat and therefore it's min b'mino. 27:49 So the Gemara fine. 27:50 So Rabosei, so therefore let's pause here for just a second because we're being introduced to a lot of concepts. 27:54 So remember again, concept number one, which take this with you because this is halacha l'ma'aseh: ta'am k'ikar. 28:01 Flavor is like having the primary item. 28:03 No distinction between the flavor of an item and primary item, that's de'oraysa. 28:07 Now the Gemara introduces us to a new concept of חתיכה עצמה נעשית נבילה, or the abbreviation chanan, chaticha na'asis neveilah. 28:18 You've had this before as well, but here's the primary sugya of it, which means that when a piece of meat, and I'm just using meat as the example, becomes assur, the entire piece of meat becomes assur. 28:28 Right? The entire thing is assur and now the problem is it could go on and assur other things as well. 28:33 Because what's interesting in the Mishnah, remember again Rabosei, in the first case of the Mishnah, the Mishnah says if a drop of milk falls onto a piece of meat, we look at the relationship between that piece of meat and the 28:43 milk. Right? And if there's sixty times more meat than the milk, you're good to go. 28:47 And if there's not sixty more times meat than the piece of milk, drop of milk, then the piece of meat is assur. 28:53 All the Gemara is saying is, well, one second, once that piece of meat becomes assur, now we have a problem with the rest of the pot. 29:01 Right? Because why? Because now we have a mixture of kosher and non-kosher items in that pot. 29:07 To compound that, to compound that, we're working with a case of min b'mino, like items. 29:13 And remember when we come to min b'mino, we have the very strict position of Rabbi Yehuda. 29:17 And Rabbi Yehuda holds מין במינו אינו בטיל. 29:22 Eino batel. Now to compound that a bit more, if you have a pot of food, it's possible that you could have מין במינו ושאינו מינו. 29:30 You could have a lot of different things going on in there, in which case there still may be room for bitul even according to Rabbi Yehuda, because we could remove the mino from the picture and see the relationship between the 29:40 prohibited item and the she-eino mino. 29:42 For example, liquid gravy. 29:44 But the Gemara just said the case over here is where halacha l'ma'aseh, it's thick gravy and thick gravy has the status ultimately again of meat. 29:50 So we have a now we have a compounded issue. 29:53 Once that piece of meat becomes assur, now we have a problem with the piece of that meat vis-a-vis the rest of the pot as well. 30:00 Okay. So the Gemara goes like this. 30:03 The Gemara says, well, let's analyze this. 30:05 mai kasavar? And rabosai, now we're coming to another piece. 30:07 mai, so what does he hold? 30:08 So the Gemara says, אי קסבר אפשר לסוחטו מותר, chatikha na’aseit neveila. 30:13 So rabosai, here is the issue, here's the next topic. 30:16 The next topic is what we call efshar lesochto, which is the following. 30:22 Let's say a piece of meat absorbs milk, and it absorbs milk in a ratio which would prohibit the piece of meat. 30:28 Can you extract the milk from that meat and once again render the meat mutter? 30:36 Essentially, can you kasher the meat? 30:38 So let's again, let's let's say I I know a meat absorbed a prohibited amount of milk. 30:44 Simple, I say like this, I'm going to boil up the meat again, right? 30:47 And again rabosai, remember the way it works, it works both ways. 30:49 When you cook something it absorbs, but when you cook something it also extracts. 30:53 So I have a piece of meat that absorbed a prohibited amount of milk. 30:57 I have a very easy way to remedy this. 30:59 How do I remedy it? 31:00 Let me put the piece of meat in a pot of boiling water and that's going to extract. 31:05 That's called efshar lesochto. Do we say that once an item becomes prohibited because of an absorption, can you subsequently extract the absorption or not? 31:19 So the Gemara says, mai kasavar? 31:21 אי קסבר אפשר לסוחטו, if you hold that the milk could be could be extracted, then חתיכה אמאי נעשית נבילה? 31:27 Then why would we say that the piece of meat becomes a neveila? 31:32 אלא קסבר אפשר לסוחטו אסור. Rather, it must be that we are holding that no, once the meat absorbs the milk, that's it. 31:42 That's it. Now when we say that's it, it doesn't mean it can't become battul, but there is no way to remedy that piece of meat by itself. 31:51 You cannot extract the issur from that piece of meat. 31:54 rabosai, I just want to point out something absolutely amazing. 31:58 And here in lies one of the most fundamental distinctions between us and a piece of meat. 32:05 Right? There are many there are many differences. 32:08 And rabosai, for Chodesh Elul, here's perhaps the most important distinction. 32:12 There is a tzad to say that once a piece of meat absorbs milk, it is forever a compromised and damaged product. 32:21 Why? efshar lesochto assur. You can never extract it. 32:25 rabosai, by us, it's farkert. 32:27 We live with the reality that whatever you absorb you could extract. 32:33 Right? The most powerful gift we have is the gift of change, is the gift of teshuva. 32:37 And what teshuva says is whatever went in, you could get out. 32:42 Whatever you've damaged, you could repair. 32:44 Whatever you've broken, you could always make whole. 32:48 And rabosai, that is the greatest gift that the Ribbono Shel Olam has given to us. 32:52 Sometimes the greatest challenge in life is that we don't believe it. 32:56 And we believe that we are so damaged that we cannot be repaired and we're so traif that we cannot be kashered. 33:02 But we have to reverse that all erroneous and damaging mindset. 33:06 No matter what you've absorbed, no matter what you've broken, no matter what you've damaged, there's always the ability to go ahead and rehabilitate, remake and re-kasher yourself. 33:16 Incredible. So the Gemara goes vaiteh. 33:18 So the Gemara says אלא קסבר אפשר לסוחטו אסור. דאתמר רב ורבי חנינא ורבי יוחנן דאמרי, so Rav, Rabbi Chanina, Rabbi Yochanan all say דאמרי אפשר לסוחטו אסור. 33:29 They hold that if you have a piece of meat, once it absorbs the milk, the piece of meat is assur. 33:34 And even if halakha l'maisa you go ahead and somehow you extract the milk, the piece of meat is still assur. 33:39 ושמואל ורבי שמעון בר רבי וריש לקיש אמרי אפשר לסוחטו מותר. And these other rabonim, rabosai, hold that no, halakha l'maisa, efshar lesochto, if you could actually extract the milk, halakha l'maisa the piece of meat is mutter. 33:57 So again rabosai, incredible. 33:58 Incredible. vsavar Rav, and the Gemara says, so again rabosai, so this is a fundamental machlokes, fundamental machlokes. 34:04 I just want to point out what's interesting is as follows. 34:07 What's interesting is the two principles up until now seem to have more broad agreement. 34:12 ta’am k'ikkar, agreement. chatikha na’aseit neveila, agreement. 34:18 In this last piece of efshar lesochto, can you extract forbidden absorptions and render the item in this case the piece of meat kosher again? 34:29 That's a machlokes. That's a machlokes. 34:30 So the Gemara says, let's analyze. 34:32 vsavar Rav efshar lesochto assur? Does Rav really hold that efshar lesochto, if you can extract the milk, ultimately again the piece of meat is still going to be assur? 34:40 But what about veha'amar, rabosai, listen to this, כזית בשר שנפל לתוך יורה של חלב, if you have a piece of meat which fell into a pot of milk? 34:50 So what's the halakha? amar Rav, Rav says בשר אסור וחלב מותר. 34:55 The meat is going to be assur but the milk is going to be the milk is going to be... 35:02 to be mutar. Now, rabosai, presumably what's the case over here? 35:04 There's a lot more milk than meat. 35:06 A lot more milk than meat, so therefore again there's 60 times more milk than the meat, so the meat, the milk is going to remain unaffected, but nevertheless the meat that fell in did absorb from the milk and therefore the 35:16 meat is going to be assur. 35:17 rabosai now watch this. 35:22 If you hold efshar l'sochto assur, which means again, if you hold that halacha l'maisa, you can't extract, right, in other words even if you extract the milk from the meat, it's still prohibited, then listen to this. 35:35 Amud Beis, chalav amai mutar? Watch this. And why should, why should the milk be mutar after all? 35:43 Listen to this. The Gemara says, chalav neveilah hu. 35:46 Now rabosai now watch this. 35:47 This is fascinating. We should have a problem ultimately again of a min be-mino situation. 35:52 Now let me trace this out. 35:53 What do we have to be concerned about? 35:55 We should be concerned like this. 35:56 The meat let's go with the process, right? 35:58 Step one, the meat falls into the milk. 36:00 So what happens, right, what happens? 36:02 The step one. Step two, milk is going to be quote-unquote fine why? 36:06 Because there's 60 times more milk than meat. 36:08 But what happens to the meat? 36:10 What happens to the meat? 36:11 The meat absorbs the milk. 36:12 Now rabosai, the same way that the meat absorbs the milk, what happens? 36:15 The meat should also be polate. 36:18 What's the expel, expel. 36:22 The meat should also expel milk. 36:24 Now, what's the status of the milk that the meat expels? 36:28 What's the status of that milk? 36:29 Right? That's traif milk, which now means you should have a mixture of traif milk together with kosher milk, a min be-mino situation, which at least according to Rabi Yehuda should be assur. 36:42 Look at look at the top Rashi for just a moment. 36:43 Chalav amai mutar? הרי חלב מעט שנבלע בבשר, listen to this, because the little bit of milk that gets absorbed into the meat, naaseh neveilah, becomes assur, she-harei ne-asar. 36:55 וכשחזר ונפלט בשאר החלב, and then when that milk that got absorbed into the meat subsequently is expelled from the meat back into the pot of milk, so the Gemara says, ha shava ve-niflat וכשחזר ונפלט בשאר החלב הוי ליה מין במינו, then rabosai I have a mixture of like items, חלב אסור בחלב היתר ורב אית ליה מין במינו לא בטיל. 37:21 Rav holds Rabi Yehuda that min be-mino is not batel. 37:23 So what's going on over here? 37:24 So again rabosai hear this, this is a fascinating case. 37:26 Rav said that if you have a piece of meat that falls into a pot of milk, assuming that there's 60 times more milk than meat, the milk is totally fine, the meat's going to be assur. 37:36 But why? If you hold efshar l'sochto assur, if you hold that even if you extract the milk from the meat, the milk is still going to be assur, then when the meat absorbs and then the meat presumably is also going to expel 37:47 the milk back into the mixture, you now have traif milk mixed with kosher milk. 37:54 Rav holds Rabi Yehuda that min be-mino is assur, and therefore the pot of milk should be assur as well. 37:59 To which the Gemara says you're right. 38:02 לעולם קסבר רב אפשר לסחטו אסור. In reality Rav does hold efshar l'sochto assur. 38:07 So what's going on over here? 38:08 ושאני התם דאמר קרא לא תבשל גדי בחלב אמו, גדי אסרה תורה ולא חלב. This is very interesting. 38:16 So the Gemara gives a fascinating answer and the Gemara says, this is a unique element ultimately again of basar b'chalav. 38:24 When it comes to basar b'chalav because rabosai the truth is, you could ask this question anytime you cook milk and meat together, right? 38:31 Using this logic, anytime you cook milk and meat together, the mixture should automatically be assur, right? 38:38 Why? Because every single time you're always going to have a pleita, an expulsion of non-kosher milk back into the kosher milk, and if you hold מין במינו אינו בטיל, then it's always assur. 38:50 To which the Gemara says that can't be because the way the Torah framed the basar b'chalav prohibition is that the prohibition ultimately again is a prohibition only of cooking milk and meat together. 38:59 So whenever you have a milk and meat, whenever you have a milk and meat mixture, what we are always looking at halacha l'maisa is, is there a meat flavor in the milk or a milk flavor in the meat? 39:11 But we're not choshesh for the expulsion of the milk back into the meat. 39:15 So essentially what the Gemara is essentially saying is almost like it's gezeiras haksav. 39:18 It's gezeiras haksav that the way the Torah frames it is that we are only concerned about meat flavor in the milk but not concerned about expelled milk flavor back into the kosher milk. 39:30 Incredible. Ve-sabar Rav, does Rav really hold גדי אסרה תורה ולא חלב? 39:34 Did Rav really say that? 39:35 Ve-ha itmar, listen to this, what about the following? 39:38 חצי זית בשר וחצי זית חלב שבשלן זה עם זה. This is an interesting case. 39:45 What about a half a kezayis of meat and a half a kezayis of milk that were cooked together? 39:49 Amar Rav, Rav said, לוקה על אכילתו ואינו לוקה על בישולו. You get malkus if you eat it, but you don't get malkus for cooking it. 40:00 Fascinating, fascinating. So the Gemara says, ואי סלקא דעתך גדי אסרה תורה ולא חלב. 40:05 But again, if you hold that the Torah only prohibited a milk and meat mixture, then ultimately again, achila amai lokei? 40:13 Why would you get malkus for eating it? 40:15 After all, chatzi shiur hu. It's half a shiur. 40:18 You know, rabosai, remember, basar bechalav is an issur achila. Issur achila ultimately is measured by kezayis. 40:24 So presumably it should require a kezayis of basar and a kezayis of chalav. 40:28 Why should I get malkus even on achila? Ela l'olam kasvar, in reality, Rav holds chalav nami assur. 40:36 In reality, you're right, Rav would hold that, rabosai, it is a problem. 40:39 It is a problem when you have the piece of meat that falls into the pot of milk. 40:44 It is not only the meat flavor that's a problem, but there's also a problem when the meat subsequently expels the absorbed milk back into the pot of milk. 40:52 That is a problem. 40:53 That is a problem. 40:54 Ay, so why don't we say that the milk is assur? 40:58 rabosai, what's the issue over here? 41:00 כגון שנפל לתוך יורה רותחת. This is fascinating. 41:03 What's the case? The case is where the piece of meat fell into a boiling pot of milk. 41:09 Now, when you have that boiling pot of milk, hamivla bala, ultimately again, the meat absorbs, the Gemara says, maplat lo palit, it does not expel. 41:21 So rabosai, this is an interesting dynamic that exists in hilchos bishul. 41:25 The assumption is as follows: that when meat falls into a boiling pot of milk, because the milk is hot, the meat is busy absorbing. 41:36 The expulsion of flavor absorbed into the meat does not occur until when? 41:41 Until ultimately the pot cools down. 41:43 In other words, the halacha understands that the science is such that a piece of meat in any given moment could either be absorbing or expelling. 41:52 You can't do both simultaneously. 41:56 So therefore halacha lema'aseh, halacha lema'aseh, and we're talking about a case where the meat fell into a boiling pot of milk. 42:00 Because the milk is boiling, the meat the flavor only goes in one direction. 42:04 It's only going into the meat, not coming back out of the meat. 42:07 The Gemara says, okay, that's fine. 42:09 סוף סוף כי נייח הדר פליט. But fine, but when the pot cools down I'm still going to run into my same problem, right? 42:15 I'm still going to run into the problem that the meat is going to expel milk flavor. 42:19 To which the Gemara says, keshekedam vesilko. 42:22 What's the case? The case is where you took the piece of meat out before the pot cooled down. 42:29 So therefore halacha lema'aseh, what the Gemara is suggesting is the following. 42:33 And and this actually is really a fascinating halacha lema'aseh case. 42:37 So therefore again, if halacha lema'aseh, if halacha lema'aseh, the piece of meat fell into a boiling pot of milk, so then essentially what the beraisa says is as follows: The beraisa says that what we simply look at is, is there sixty times 42:49 more milk than meat? 42:51 If there's sixty times more milk than meat, then what? 42:54 Then what's the halacha? 42:55 What's the halacha? Milk is kosher, meat is tereif. 42:58 Why is the meat tereif? 43:00 Because halacha lema'aseh, the meat has milk absorption. 43:04 Ay, do we not have to be concerned that the milk is expelling flavor back into the milk? 43:11 Now again, rabosai, if you don't hold like Rabbi Yehuda and min bemino is batel, you're like, who cares? 43:17 Fine, let let let the meat expel milk back in. 43:21 We still have in a sixty times more we still have sixty times more more more milk. 43:25 We're fine. We're absolutely fine. 43:27 According to Rabbi Yehuda, however, that would be a problem. 43:29 So according to Rabbi Yehuda, the way you have to frame the case is how? 43:32 Where the meat fell in while the pot was boiling and then what happened? 43:35 The meat was removed before the pot cooled down. 43:39 So this way again halacha lema'aseh, halacha lema'aseh, the meat absorbed but it never had a chance to expel. 43:47 And therefore again, all we are concerned about ultimately again is the relationship of the meat to the milk, not worried about any type of expulsions from the meat itself. 43:55 Incredible. Okay. So now the Gemara goes back and examines the previous case. 43:59 Gufa. חצי זית בשר וחצי זית חלב שבישלן זה עם זה. So rabosai, so what happens if you have this half a kezayis of meat, half a kezayis of chalav that are been cooked with each other? 44:09 So Amar Rav, Rav said, לוקה על אכילתו ואינו לוקה על בישולו. 44:12 So ultimately again you're going to get malkus for eating it, because rabosai, the logic would seem to be because once you cook them together, right? 44:19 Once you once you eat let me say it differently, לוקה על אכילתו ואינו לוקה על בישולו. 44:23 He's not going to get now you're not going to get malkus on bishul. 44:26 Why are you not getting malkus on bishul? 44:28 Why not? What seems to be the logic? 44:30 The logic is chatzi shiur. 44:32 Because you're not cooking a in order the only time you get malkus for cooking basar bechalav is when when you're cooking a kezayis of basar with a kezayis of chalav. 44:41 But in this case you're cooking half a kezayis. 44:43 Why will you get malkus when you eat it? 44:46 Because again, now they combine and you have a kezayis of basar bechalav. 44:51 So a fascinating case. 44:52 So when I'm cooking it, there's not a de-oraisa, but once there's a finished product, ultimately again that is an issur de-oraisa. 44:59 The Gemara says, I don't understand. 45:00 it doesn't make any sense. 45:02 Mah nafshach? Ee mitztarfin, if they indeed combine to form a kezayis for achila purposes, that if you eat this, you're going to be chayav, then what? 45:12 A-bishul nami lulkei. Then ultimately you should get malkus ultimately again for bishul as well. 45:20 אי לא מצטרפין אכילה נמי לא לילקי, then you shouldn't get malkus for consumption either. 45:26 And so, rabosai, what the Gemara is essentially saying is I don't understand, it doesn't make sense. 45:30 Your logic is not consistent. 45:32 If it forms the requisite shiur for achila, then it should form the requisite shiur for bishul. 45:38 And if it doesn't form the requisite shiur for bishul, then it shouldn't form the requisite shiur for achila. 45:43 To which the Gemara says le'olam lo mitztarfi. 45:46 In reality, in reality, when you cook a half kezayis of basar and you cook a half kezayis of chalav together, they do not combine. 45:56 They do not combine to form the requisite shiur. 45:58 So what's the case? 45:59 Rabosai, what's the case? 46:01 U-v'ba mi-yoreh gedolah. So, rabosai, what's the case over here? 46:04 The case over here ultimately again is where everything is coming from a bigger pot. 46:10 So in other words, you have a pot, you have a pot of basar and a pot of chalav, right? 46:15 Or a pot of basar v'chalav. 46:16 And now you're taking a half kezayis of each and eating that. 46:20 So already again they were cooked in issur and now I'm eating a half kezayis of each. 46:24 So the issur was already created independently. 46:26 So now halacha l'maiseh I'm eating it, that's why there's going to be prohibition. 46:30 Look at Rashi, le'olam lo mitztarfi. 46:33 It's almost right across. 46:34 Rashi says לעולם לא מצטרפי לעשות איסור אלא אם כן היה בו בתחילה כשיעור. In reality, the only way to create prohibited basar v'chalav is with a kezayis of basar and a kezayis of chalav. 46:46 That's how you create basar v'chalav. 46:48 What's the case? וכי אמר רב לוקה על אכילתו שבא מיורה גדולה. 46:52 We're talking about a case, rabosai, where this basar v'chalav came from a larger pot of basar v'chalav where you had a kezayis of basar and a kezayis of chalav. 47:03 Now you're taking a half kezayis of basar and a half kezayis of chalav and you're eating it together. 47:08 ולצדדין אמר רב למילתיה. Watch this. אכל חצי זית בשר וחצי זית חלב הבא מיורה גדולה שנתבשל בה שיעור מזה ומזה ונעסרו לוקה על אכילתו שאכל שיעור שלם איסור השם אחד. 47:26 So now watch this, what it means is like this. 47:28 If you have a pot of basar v'chalav and within that pot of basar v'chalav there was the shiur, a kezayis of basar, a kezayis of chalav cooked together. 47:37 Now what happens? You take a half kezayis of basar and a half kezayis of chalav out of that pot and you eat it together. 47:44 What's the halacha? You're chayav. 47:46 Why you chayav? Why you chayav? 47:47 Because halacha l'maiseh it came from the proper shiur of issur. 47:52 Proper shiur of issur sounds a little strange, right? 47:54 But it comes from the actual shiur of issur. 47:57 The Gemara says ואין לוקה על בישולו דאם בישל כחצי זית בשר כחצי זית חלב זה עם זה לפי שאין מצטרפין מכלל דהיתר לקרוא איסור עד שיהא בכל אחד לעשות איסור עצמו. 48:08 But again if you were to cook, so again, rabosai, so the halacha is as follows. 48:13 If you have a pot of basar v'chalav, let's say you cooked a kezayis of basar together with a kezayis of chalav, so you have a pot of basar v'chalav. 48:20 And you now take a half kezayis of meat and a half kezayis of milk from that larger mixture and you eat them together, you are chayav. 48:31 You are chayav. However, if you were to take a half kezayis of meat, regular meat, and a half kezayis of regular milk and cook them together, you would not be chayav. 48:42 You would not be chayav because ultimately again you're only chayav for basar v'chalav if you take a kezayis of each. 48:47 So that ultimately again is how Rav is understanding this. 48:51 U-Levi amar, the Gemara says v'Levi amar, Levi says אף לוקה על בישולו. 48:56 It's not true. Levi says you even get malkus ultimately again for the bishul of half kezayis basar and half kezayis chalav. 49:02 וכן תניא ליה מתניתין, and they say Levi said this as well, כשם שלוקה על אכילתו כך לוקה על בישולו. 49:11 In the same way that you get malkus for eating half kezayis of chalav, half kezayis basar, so too you get malkus from bishul. 49:26 And rabosai, but this presupposes ultimately again now Levi's one thing, so again, rabosai, it's very very interesting. 49:31 So Levi actually holds that halacha l'maiseh if you go ahead and you cook a half kezayis of basar with a half kezayis of chalav, ultimately again that creates issur. Machlokes Rav and Levi. 49:43 So again, rabosai, now interestingly what Levi adds in is however for basar v'chalav the only time you're chayav is when? 49:54 If it's fully cooked. 49:55 Fascinating. In other words I guess if you do medium rare basar v'chalav, right, or not fully cooked basar v'chalav... 50:10 non-Jews, ultimately again would eat it, which means halacha lemaise fully cooked. 50:15 Rabbosai, we're going to stop over here for today. 50:17 So we're leaving this piece still open-ended, right? 50:19 In other words, this is an important piece for for the prohibition both of achila as well as for bishul. 50:26 Do I need a kezayis? 50:27 Do I need a kezayis of basar and a kezayis of chalav for bishul? 50:31 Do I need a kezayis of basar and a kezayis of chalav for achila? 50:34 That is still an open-ended issue. 50:36 Rabbosai, so remember, let's solidify the pieces we know. 50:38 Number one, taam ke'ikar. Flavor in halacha is as recognizable as the item itself. 50:44 Number two, חתיכה עצמה נעשית נבלה, when a piece of meat absorbs milk in a in a shiur where it's not butel, the entire piece ultimately again becomes assur. 50:54 What are the two open-ended pieces? 50:56 Number one, efshar lesochto. Can you extract the prohibited absorption and once again make the piece of meat mutar? 51:03 That is a machlokes. 51:04 We're going to resolve that tomorrow. 51:06 And number two, and number two, what's the halacha? 51:08 Do you need a kezayis of meat and a kezayis of milk both for bishul and achila, or even a half a kezayis of each is enough? 51:17 That's also open-ended, im yirtzeh a resolution to all these issues tomorrow. 51:23 Rabbosai, shkoiach. Everyone have a great day.
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