Transcript Translit עברית
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0:02 I think it is, yes. 0:02 I feel that, that was semi-legitimate. 0:04 Alright, so we'll say good morning, good morning. 0:18 Let us begin, begin by thanking our sponsors for Daf Yomi this morning. 0:23 To thank our - give me a second, sorry to thank our Talmud Torah sponsors for the month of אלול הבא עלינו לטובה. 0:31 To thank the Shonfeld family for dedicating all of Shmuel J. 0:33 Schuss's this month Le'ilui Nishmas Mr. 0:37 Heshy Shonfeld, צבי מאיר בן משה הלוי, Zichrono Levracha. 0:39 Justin and Abigail Rosemer for dedicating all of Shmuel J. 0:43 Schuss's this month with tremendous gratitude to the entire Kehilla and with hopes that our Tefillos will be answered over the Yamim Noraim. 0:49 Leah Soul for dedicating all of Shmuel J. 0:51 Schuss's this month in recognition of the entire Kehilla and for continued Refuah Sheleima for Ilana bas Esther. 0:58 And Baruch Meir and Hindy Dubin for dedicating all of Shmuel J. 1:02 Schuss's this month שרה חנה בת ברל נחום, גרשון יעקב בן משה, and with tremendous gratitude to Hakadosh Baruch Hu for a year filled with tremendous family Simchas. 1:13 Our Daf Yomi sponsors for today, Alice and Sarah Steinberg, dedicating the Daf in the Zchus of continued Refuah Sheleima for חשוה שולמית חנה בת סושה and for an ultimate Refuah Sheleima. 1:21 Okay Rabbosai, let us begin. 1:23 So today's Daf is Kuf Yud Ches, 118, a lot to do today. 1:26 Sorry, got a little bit too carried away with Bilvavi. 1:28 We're going to pick up Im Yirtzeh Hashem in the end of the Mishna on קוף יוד זיין עמוד בית, 117b exactly 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11 lines up from the bottom, last couple of lines in the Mishna. 1:42 So Rabbosai, remember again, we are in the riveting and overwhelming world of Tumas Ochlin, Tumas Neveilos. 1:47 Yes, yes, it's all what you make of it. 1:49 Rabbosai, remember again the important part to remember in all of this is Tumas Ochlin, which means food Tuma, and Tumas Neveilos have two different Shiurim. Tumas Ochlin the Shiur is Kebeitzah, the size of an egg. 1:59 Tumas Neveila, it's Kezayis. What we're trying to figure out is when you have an animal, right, when you have an animal what parts of the animal kind of combine to form this requisite Shiur? 2:11 That's our fundamental issue that we're dealing with in the Mishna. 2:14 So the Mishna went on, the end of the Mishna was וריבה לטמא טומאת אוכלין ממה שריבה לטומאת נבילות. 2:19 There are many more things that combine for Tumas Ochlin than what combine ultimately again for Tumas Neveilos. Rabbi Yehuda Omer, Rabbi Yehuda says Alal HaMechunas, the Alal that comes along, that comes out with the hide, אם יש בו כזית במקום אחד חייב לו. 2:49 Ultimately again if there is a Kezayis of meat concentrated on one part of the hide, ultimately again one could be Chayiv in that. 2:56 Okay, more about that in the Gemara. 2:58 Says the Gemara Alright Rabbosai, so just to define our terms for just a moment. 3:06 In the laws of Tuma there are two important for today's Daf two important terms to remember. 3:09 What we call a Shomer and a Yad. 3:11 A Shomer is something which protects the meat. 3:14 Classic example of that would be the hide. 3:18 The hide is a good example, right? 3:19 So the hide is called a Shomer. 3:20 So one of the things we're going to discuss is does a Shomer combine ultimately again with the food item in order to create the requisite Shiur for Tuma purposes? 3:31 The other example is a Yad. Yad is literally a handle through which you would go ahead and handle the meat. 3:38 What's a good example of a Yad? 3:40 A bone. Right, a bone. 3:42 So you could have a bone, the meat is attached to the bone, and if I want to eat the meat, I would hold onto the bone. 3:47 So we have Yad and we have a Shomer. 3:50 So now the Gemara says הא סני להא דתנו רבנן שומרים Shomer combines ultimately for Tuma Kala and again Rabbosai, another piece to remember in all of this: Tuma Kala is food Tuma. 4:03 What we call Tumas Ochlin. 4:05 That is considered to be a, what we call quote unquote a lower form of Tuma. 4:10 A lower form of Tuma. 4:12 If you look at Rashi, Rashi says over here Le'ha d'tanu rabanan. 4:16 Actually we could do Tanina, which is it's the bottom Rashi, 2, 4, 6, 8 lines up from the bottom: תנינא במתניתין דעור עצמו אין מצטרף לכזית דנבילה אף על פי דשומרים הם להא דתנו רבנן שומרים יש לו טומאה קלה ששומר האוכל מצטרפין לכביצה לטומאת אוכלים אבל לא לכזית דנבילה שטומאה חמורה לטומאת אדם וכלים. 4:37 Now by the way, food Tuma is called ultimately Tuma Kala because food Tuma has a very limited ability to go ahead and convey Tuma. 4:49 At most it really could convey Tuma to other foods, but that's about it. 4:53 On the other hand, Tumas Neveila is called Tuma Chamura, more stringent Tuma. 4:57 Why? Because it has the ability to pass on Tuma to people. 5:01 and to utensils, adam and kelim. 5:03 Okay rabosai, so just get our terms down over here: shomer, something which protects the meat, yad, something which enables you to handle the meat. 5:11 Tuma kala, light tuma, or light right more lenient tuma, that's tumas ochlin, that's food tuma, because food tuma in general is on the, on the scale of tuma one of the lowest forms of tuma. Tuma chamura, that's tumas neveila. 5:24 Okay, so now let's read it again. 5:26 So תני הדרבנן שומרים לטומאה קלה, the shomer of the animal, right, let's say for example the hide, goes ahead and combines with the meat to form the requisite shiur of a beya, of an egg, for tumas ochlin. 5:38 ולא שומר לטומאה חמורה, but a shomer does not combine with the meat ultimately for tumas neveila. 5:44 שומרים לטומאה קלה מנלן? Where do we know that from? 5:47 So rabosai, we're going through a couple of drashas over here. 5:49 From where do we know that ultimately, again, the shomer combines, the shomer of the animal goes ahead for, we'll just there are other examples of shomer but for our purpose we'll just use the hide 'cause it's the easiest example. 5:59 So how do I know that the shomer, let's say the hide, combines with the meat to form the requisite shiur? 6:05 דתנו דבי ישמעאל על כל זרע זרוע. So rabosai, this is the pasuk. 6:10 This is the פסוק וכי יפול מנבלתם על כל זרע זרוע אשר יזרע טהור הוא. 6:16 So this is by tumas neveila. 6:18 If the neveila will ultimately fall upon any seed which has been planted, it is tahor. 6:26 So the Gemara says כדרך שבני אדם מוציאין לזריעה. 6:29 So when, so what does this refer to? 6:32 This refers ultimately again to a food item that people normally take out to be planted: chita biklipasa, which is a stalk of wheat in its, in its chaff; useora biklipasa, or a piece of barley, right, a stalk of barley in its, in 6:46 its husk; vaadashim biklipasa, or legumes ultimately again in their shell. 6:52 Point over here in all of these cases halacha lemaiseh, all of these items are shomrim for these items, and yet they combine for the requisite shiur. 7:01 So the Gemara says ולא שומרים לטומאה חמורה מנלן? 7:03 And how do we know that the shomer does not combine with the meat ultimately again for tumas neveila? Detanu rabanan, because we learned benivlasah, 'cause the pasuk when talking about tumas neveila says benivlasah, in its carcass, ולא בעור שאין עליו כזית בשר. 7:18 So how is tumas neveila conveyed? 7:21 Dafke benivlasah, ultimately again with the carcass, and not with the hide that covers the carcass. 7:28 Now obviously, if the hide has a kezayis of meat attached to it, okay, that's a different discussion. 7:34 But if the hide does not have a kezayis of meat, the hide does not combine with the meat to form a kezayis. 7:40 Incredible. דף קיח, 118a: יכול הנוגע כנגד בשר מאחוריו לא יהא טמא. 7:44 So rabosai, I might have thought that what happens if halacha lemaiseh there's a piece of hide, on the other piece of hide, on the other side of the hide there's a kezayis basar, if I touch the hide side, the hide side, right, 8:00 not the meat side, I might have thought that ultimately again I don't contract tumas neveila. Talmud lomar yitma. 8:07 The pasuk says no, you do become tamei. 8:09 In other words, as much as the hide, and again rabosai, remember by tumas neveila, as much as the hide does not combine with the meat of a neveila to form the requisite shiur of a kezayis for tumas neveila, however again, if you 8:23 have a kezayis of basar on the hide and you touch the hide part, the hide side, the hide will not form a barrier to the transmission of tuma. 8:34 Incredible. So what does this mean? 8:35 Gemara says mai kamar? What exactly does this mean? 8:38 אמר רבא ואמרי לה כדי. So rabosai, so some say it was Rava, some say it was without any specific attribution. 8:44 חסורי מחסרא והכי קתני, in reality there's a piece missing from the braisa and here's how you have to read it. 8:50 Benivlasah. The pasuk says when do you contract tumas neveila? 8:55 Only through the neveila itself ולא בעור שאין עליו כזית. 9:00 But you will not, you will not contract tumas neveila from a piece of hide, from the neveila hide that does not have a kezayis of basar. 9:09 Again rabosai, remember we are, we are, furthermore the Gemara says over here veor mashlima lakezayis, but the Gemara suggests over here that according to the braisa, in fact the hide will in fact go ahead and count towards the requisite shiur of a 9:22 kezayis. Whoa. יכול שאני מוציא אף עור שיש עליו כזית. You might have thought that I would exclude there, ultimately again I would exclude a case of a hide where it does have a kezayis, והנוגע כנגד בשר מאחוריו יכול לא יהא טמא ואפילו מעשה יד נמי לא עביד. 9:41 I might have thought that halacha lemaiseh even if the piece of hide has a kezayis basar on it, but if you touched the hide side, hide side, and not the meat side, that you would not contract tuma, ואפילו מעשה יד נמי לא עביד. 9:55 And maybe in that case the hide would not even act as a yad. 9:58 So rabosai, interesting we're going to see that some times things could act both as a yad and as a shomer, right? 10:04 A hide is a good example of this, a hide is a shomer in its essence, right? 10:08 Because remember again, it's something that protects the meat, but it could also act as a yad because you could also it could be used to handle the meat. 10:16 So I'm of the thought that halacha lemaysa, maybe the hide doesn't even act as a yad, so if you touch the hide side you don't contract tumah, talmud lomar yitma. 10:25 Therefore the pasuk says yitma. Rabosai, first wide line, 118A, middle of the line, middle end. 10:31 Tnan hasam, we learned there, כל שהוא יד ולא שומר טמא ומטמא ואינו מצטרף. 10:36 Okay, rabosai, so now we're going through, the mishnah here is going to espouse some rules. 10:46 Anything that is a yad, now remember again, a yad means a handle for the meat, vlo shomer, but it's not something that guards the meat, tamay can contract tumah, umitamei and can, sorry, can contract umitamei and can transmit tumah, veino mitztaref, but does not 11:01 combine with the meat to form the requisite shiyur for tumah. 11:06 Okay, that's on a yad. Shomer, ואף על פי שאינו יד, if you have a shomer that doesn't act as a yad, okay, then what's the halacha with that? 11:14 Tamay, it could contract tumah, umitamei and can convey tumah, umitztaref and it does combine with the meat to form the requisite shiyur. 11:23 לא יד ולא שומר, what happens if you have something that's not a yad, not a shomer? 11:28 לא טמא ולא מטמא, it doesn't contract tumah and it doesn't, it doesn't, it doesn't convey tumah. 11:33 So the Gemara says okay, yados hacha ksivi, from where, where in the Torah do we find this scriptural allusion to this concept ultimately again of yados? 11:43 Where do we find that? 11:45 To which the Gemara says, in other words, rabosai, this idea that something which is a handle to the meat according to what the braisa just said, anything that is a handle, right, ultimately has the ability to contract tumah, to convey 11:57 tumah, but does not combine ultimately again with the food for tumas ochlin purposes. 12:03 Where do I know that? 12:04 Where is this concept of a yad taught to us in the Torah? 12:07 דכתיב וכי יתן מים על זרע ונפל מנבלתם עליו טמא הוא לכם. So this is the pasuk we just quoted before. 12:16 The pasuk said that ultimately again if you have water that's come upon a seed venafal minivlasam alav and then a neveilah falls on it, tamay hu lachem, ultimately again the seed becomes tamay. 12:27 So again rabosai, there's a number of things happening in this pasuk, number one about the ability for a neveilah to convey tumah, okay but that you already know, but also interestingly enough the idea that that also when water comes upon 12:40 a seed it makes it huchsher lekabel tumah, which we've seen extensively. 12:43 So the Gemara's like watch this, lachem, so what does this mean, what does it mean that it'll be for you? 12:47 Lichol shebetzarchachem, anything that is there for your needs, lerabos es hayados. 12:53 This comes to include a yad, where a yad of a beheima ultimately again is there to allow me to handle the meat. 13:01 Uchsiv and the pasuk says וכי ימות מן הבהמה אשר היא לכם. 13:05 And the pasuk says if an animal, right, if an animal will die that is for you, lachem, lichol shebetzarchachem, this means for you for any of your needs, lerabos es hayados, and this comes to include a yad, because a yad really serves a utilitarian 13:20 purpose ultimately in the animal in that it enables me to handle the meat. 13:24 יד להכניס ולהוציא. So ultimately a yad has the ability to infuse tumah and ultimately again to transmit tumah. 13:33 ושומר להכניס ולהוציא לא צריך קרא. But a shomer, interestingly enough, a part of the animal that's a shomer, the idea that it could infuse tumah and transmit tumah does not need a pasuk. 13:45 Why not? So the Gemara says קל וחומר מיד אתי, because I can learn it from a kal vachomer from yad. 13:51 What's the kal vachomer? ומה יד שאינו מגינה מכנסת ומוציאה, a yad which does not provide protection because remember again a yad is a handle, right, something you hold the meat by, it doesn't provide protection, yet what's the halacha? Machneses umosiya, ultimately it has the ability to infuse tumah 14:09 and transmit it. שומר לא כל שכן, a shomer, rabosai, which does protect the meat, which seems to be an elevated level, it goes without saying that it can infuse, excuse me, it can infuse tumah and transmit it. 14:24 So the Gemara says שומר לא כל שכן, שומר דכתב רחמנא למה לי, so if that's the case then why does the Torah go ahead and mention shomer, why do we learn out, why do we have a derivation for shomer? 14:33 The Gemara says shma mina letztaref, ultimately again, so it teaches us that halacha lemaysa that a shomer and rabosai, this is the point we keep on reinforcing, that a shomer has the ability to combine with the meat to form the requisite shiyur for 14:48 tumas ochlin. Incredible. ואימא יד להכניס ולא להוציא, I maybe we should say that ultimately again a yad has the ability to infuse tumah, right, transmit tumah to the item, but not, I should say infuse tuma but not to transmit it. 15:03 Shomer l', so the Gemara says, v'lo l'hotzi. 15:07 שומר להכניס ולהוציא. And a shomer again, Rabboisei, remember again the Gemara clearly states the hierarchy that shomer is greater than a yad, which makes sense because protection of the meat obviously seems to be an elevated level over just handling of the meat. 15:21 Shomer l', says the Gemara, שומר להכניס ולהוציא אבל יד להוציא ושומר לצרף לא. 15:26 But maybe a yad doesn't have the ability to transmit, and maybe a shomer doesn't have the ability to combine with the meat. 15:33 יד להכניס ולא להוציא לא מצית אמרת. No, you can't say that a yad has the ability to infuse tuma and not to and not to go ahead and transmit it. 15:44 Why? השתא עיולי מעיילא אפוקי מבעיא. If something has the ability to transmit tuma to something, it certainly has the ability to extract. 15:53 In other words, if the yad could make the meat tamei, it certainly has the ability to transmit that tuma from the meat to another item. 16:02 ואימא יד להוציא ולא להכניס. So maybe say that a yad has the ability to ultimately again transmit the tuma but not to infuse it. 16:11 Shomer l'hotzi l'hachnis. But a shomer is going to be more chamur. 16:15 Why is a shomer more chamur? 16:17 Because perhaps a shomer has the ability to both motzi and machnis. 16:20 אבל יד להכניס ושומר לצרף לא. But maybe again the yad to go ahead and infuse the tuma and the shomer to combine with the food, perhaps it's not a possibility. 16:30 To which the Gemara says yad yeseira k'siv. 16:33 The Torah speaks about yad at an additional time. 16:36 There's an additional yad. 16:38 Where's where's the additional yad? 16:39 Listen to this. Tannur v'chirayim yutzas. 16:42 The Torah says, Rabboisei, ultimately again by an oven. 16:46 So again, remember the the pasuk over here is as follows. 16:48 The pasuk says וכל אשר יפול מנבלתם עליו יטמא. 16:52 So anytime that a neveila falls on something, right, the neveila comes in contact with something and the neveila transmits tuma. 17:00 Then the pasuk says Tannur v'chirayim yutzas. 17:03 If the neveila falls onto onto what into what called onto an oven, right, an oven or a stove, yutzas. 17:10 It has to be smashed. 17:12 Now why? Because classically what was an oven and a stove made of? 17:16 Earthenware, kli cheres. Kli cheres once it becomes tamei there's no tahara process for it. 17:22 So it says yutzas. 17:22 טמאים הם וטמאים יהיו לכם. There's that yihyu again. 17:27 Yihyu always refers to the Gemara's d'rasha before as yados. 17:31 So Rabboisei, the point over here is there's another pasuk here that is teaching me about a yad, which means anything that is a handle to the item that is tamei ultimately again has properties of the meat itself, of the tamei 17:45 item itself. So the Gemara says, so therefore the Torah is now teaching me yados in two different places. 17:51 Right, I have it first time by the seeds and now a second time by the oven. 17:55 Why do I need to be taught the halacha of yad in two different places? 17:59 Hei mineihu maisis. So obviously Rabboisei, I don't need both places. 18:04 One of them is going to be extra. 18:05 Which one is extra? 18:06 ליכתוב רחמנא בזרעים ולייתו הך. Let the Torah just state it ultimately again by zraim, by zraim, v'laiseih hanch and then learn out the other two. 18:17 Now the other two Rabboisei are Tannur and Neveila. 18:20 And just learn out those other two from zraim. 18:23 So the Gemara v'laiseih hanch mineihu. But here's the problem. 18:25 מה לזרעים שכן טומאתם מרובה. Ultimately again Rabboisei, interestingly enough, now literally translated there's a lot of tuma by seeds. 18:34 Now what does that mean? 18:35 If you look at Rashi, Rashi is on the second wide line, זרעים טומאתם מרובה שמקבלין טומאה מולדי טומאה. 18:43 Because seeds have the seeds are more receptive to tuma and they could receive tuma even from a number of different tuma derivatives. 18:50 תאמר בתנור שאינו מקבל טומאה אלא מאב הטומאה וכן מנבלה מרובה טומאת אוכלין כדי ש Rabboisei, interestingly enough, seeds apparently are much more receptive to tuma than neveila, right? 19:04 Neveila has its own set of tuma set of tuma and Tannur, an oven, only becomes tamei ultimately again from an av hatuma, not from any secondary source of tuma. 19:14 ליכתוב רחמנא בתנור ולייתו הך מיני. So let's go ahead and write it by Tannur and ultimately again learn these other cases from it. 19:20 מה לתנור שכן מיטמא מאווירו. No, Tannur can't serve as the source. 19:25 Why can't Tannur serve as the source? 19:27 Because halacha l'maiseh, Tannur is unique. 19:29 How so? Because it only becomes tamei from its interior airspace. 19:33 Remember again Rabboisei, if you slap a neveila against the outside of a Tannur it does not become tamei. 19:38 It only becomes tamei if you put that neveila inside of the Tannur itself. 19:43 ליכתוב רחמנא בנבלה ולייתו הך מיני. Let the Torah write neveila and learn out the other cases from the neveila. 19:51 מה לנבלה שכן מיטמא אדם ומיטמא במשא בטומאה יוצא מגופה. So here's the problem. 20:00 So in other words... 20:00 let the Torah write nevelah and learn out the other two cases of Tannur and Zraim from it. 20:05 Here's the problem: So number one, nevelah is metameh adam and metameh masa, right, vetumah yotzei megufa. Nevelah has certain chumros. 20:13 What are the chumros? 20:14 Number one, nevelah could convey tumah to adam, which a Tannur can't do, Zraim can't do. 20:20 It also becomes tamei through carrying, which is interesting. 20:24 Masa or I should say it can convey tumah through carrying and ultimately again nevelah emanates its own tumah. 20:30 Emanates. Yeah. Emits. Emits. 20:35 Thank you. It emits its own tumah which is not the case by Zraim or Tannur. Chad the Gemara says you're right. 20:42 Fine. So aside. So bottom line, okay, what's what? 20:47 What? Just what? Okay? 20:49 So let's regroup. It's good. 20:52 It's all we got this. 20:53 It's all good. It's all good. 20:55 Right? Rabosei, here's what we know. 20:56 Right? Here's let's just take a pause catch our breath for just a second. 21:00 Here's what we know: Our Mishnah introduced us to two forms of tumah: Tumas ochlin, tumas nevelah, right? 21:05 Tumas ochlin, food tumah, tumas nevelah, nevelah tumah. Now again as much as we're grouping them together, they are very different. 21:12 Why are they very different? 21:12 Tumas nevelah, Rabosei, where does tumas nevelah emanate from? 21:16 Where does it emanate from? 21:17 Right, the carcass. In other words, tumas nevelah is in and of itself self-contained tumah. Tumas ochlin is contracted tumah, right? 21:26 Ochel is ochel. Ochel is food. 21:28 Tumas ochlin means the food somehow became tamei from something else. 21:32 As much as we're grouping it together, they're really separate and distinct. 21:35 But okay, for our purposes, tumas ochlin, tumas nevelah. 21:39 Number two, so that right now they have we know they have a fundamental difference. 21:42 A fundamental difference, the shiur. 21:45 What is the requisite size? 21:46 How big does food have to be number one, two, we'll call it to contract and to convey tumah? 21:53 And the answer is, the answer is kebeia, the size of an egg. 21:57 Right? Okay sorry. Hold on for a second. 22:00 Nevelah, nevelah how big does nevelah right how much nevelah do you now remember nevelah doesn't need to contract tumah. 22:07 Why doesn't it need to contract tumah? 22:08 Why not? Why not? 22:09 It's already tamei. So when it comes to nevelah we're talking about we're talking about transmitting tumah. 22:14 How big does a piece of nevelah have to be in order to go ahead and transmit? 22:18 Kezayis. Here's what we're trying to figure out. 22:20 Very simple idea. What combines, what combines in order to create the shiur? 22:27 That's our shayla. What combines in order to create the shiur? 22:30 Now, where this question becomes most acute is with meat, right? 22:35 Because with stam a piece of food, right, I have an apple, the apple's an apple, right? 22:39 But you have meat. 22:40 Meat has a lot of parts to it. 22:43 There's obviously the meat, but there's also the bone. 22:46 There's the horn. There's the hooves. 22:48 There's the hide. There's the pieces of flesh that get pulled away with the hide. 22:54 So all we're trying to figure out over here is what combines to form the shiur? 23:00 By regular food, by regular food, the shiur is going to be a kebeia, the size of an egg. 23:05 By nevelah it's going to be the shiur of a kezayis. 23:07 And we're just trying to figure out what combines with what? 23:11 That's all. That's all. 23:13 In addition to that, the Gemara introduced us to two new concepts: what we call a shomer and the yad. 23:20 A shomer is something which protects the meat, a good example of that again would be would be the hide, but it could also apply to the horns, could also apply to the hooves. 23:29 These are all things that are protectors of the meat of the animal. 23:34 And a yad. A yad is a handle. 23:36 Simplest case of a yad is a bone. 23:38 So then a further shayla is, does a shomer combine, does a yad combine? 23:44 That's all that's happening over here. 23:46 Along the journey the Gemara says ah, by the way, from where do you know that a yad combines at all? 23:51 Or so then the Gemara says oh, interesting you should ask. 23:53 Interestingly enough the Torah teaches the law of yad actually in three different scenarios. 23:58 It teaches it to me by seeds, it teaches it to me by an oven, by Tannur, and it teaches it to me by nevelah itself. 24:05 What the Gemara now is getting wrapped up in is why does the Torah need to teach me the halacha of yodos in three different places? 24:12 Why not just learn it out of one place? 24:14 That's what we're trying to go through over here. 24:15 So the Gemara says over here, Rabosei, and that's it. 24:17 Again remember we don't have any conclusions yet. 24:19 We'll get to conclusions imirtzah Hashem in tomorrow's daf. 24:21 But the Gemara now is framing this whole discussion for me. 24:24 So therefore the Gemara says as follows: Chada. 24:29 Good. חד מחד לא אתיא. So obviously Rabosei we have three cases where the Torah is teaching me the halachas of yad. 24:35 So obviously again I can't learn out one from the other. 24:41 Tisi chad mitartei. So let the Torah just say two of the three cases and I'll learn the third case from that. 24:47 So the Gemara says okay, hei tisi? 24:49 Which one should we bring down? 24:51 לא לכתוב רחמנא בזרעים ותיתי הנך. So let the Torah leave out the discussion about seeds and just learn it out from Tannur and nevelah. Ma hanach shekein. 25:00 and metammei shelo behechsher. These other items, i.e., nevelah and tannur, have the ability to contract tumah even without hechsher, right? 25:07 Even without, even without contact with a liquid prior, but yet again that does not apply by zraim. 25:12 תאמר בזרעים שאין מטמא אלא בהכשר. But yet again seeds could only become tamei if they first come in contact with a liquid. 25:18 אמרינהו מבריה דרבי יהושע פירות שלא הוכשרו כתנור שלא נגמרה מלאכתו דמי. In reality fruit, right, peros that have not come in contact with a liquid are the equivalent of a tannur that is not finished. 25:32 So the Gemara says ela parich hachi, rather ask the following: מה להנך שכן מטמאין שלא בנגיעה. 25:40 Right? These other items, nevelah and tannur, can both become tamei without contact. 25:46 Now what does that mean? 25:47 Now nevelah is inherently tamei, good, so therefore there's no quote-unquote contact that's necessary. 25:53 And a tannur, interestingly enough, how does an oven become tamei? 25:56 Through its air space, right? 25:57 Through its interior air space, davka not through contact. 26:00 תאמר בזרעים שאין מטמאין אלא בנגיעה. Yet seeds will only become tamei through contact. 26:07 So therefore, so you know, so the point the Gemara's making over here is we're beginning to see the Torah has to write all three of these cases because they're very different from each other. 26:16 לא ליכתוב רחמנא בתנור ותיתי מהנך. So fine, let the Torah leave out tannur and learn out tannur from nevelah and zraim. 26:26 Here's the problem. מה להנך שכן אוכל. 26:31 Here's the problem. Both nevelah and seeds fall into the food category. 26:35 Tannur, of course, is not a food item. 26:37 לא ליכתוב רחמנא בנבלה ותיתי מהנך. So let the Torah not state anything by nevelah and ultimately again learn it out from these other cases, to which the Gemara says ein hachi nami, אלא יד דנבלה למה לי. 26:50 So again, so once again why do I need the Torah to teach me the halakha of yad by nevelah? 26:54 אם אינו עניין ליד נבלה, if I don't need it to teach me the yad by nevelah cause I can learn that out from the other two, from zraim and tannur, תנהו עניין ליד דעלמא. 27:05 It can teach me a general halakha of yad. 27:08 And what does the general halakha of yad teach me? 27:11 יד להכניס יד להוציא שומר לצירוף. It teaches me that a yad has the ability to infuse tumah into an item, has the ability to transmit tumah from an item, but does not combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 27:29 And that stands in contradistinction to a shomer which has the aforementioned qualities as well, but also has the ability to go ahead and combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 27:40 So again, what the Gemara has been driving at this entire time, that a yad, a handle, has the ability to infuse tumah, right? 27:48 Has the ability to transmit tumah from the item, but does not combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 27:54 That stands in contradistinction to a shomer which can do those aforementioned things but also has the ability to combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 28:04 ואכתי יד דנבלה איצטריך. But still I need the Torah to say yad by nevelah. 28:09 Why? די לא כתב רחמנא בנבלה, because if the Torah wouldn't have said anything by nevelah, הוה אמינא דיו לבא מן הדין להיות כנדון. 28:20 I would have said dayo. 28:20 You know, dayo means that whenever you make, whenever you go ahead and you make like a kal v'chomer or you make a limmud, ultimately again the derivative can never be any stronger than the source. 28:27 מה להנך לא מטמאי אדם, because remember again both tannur and zraim do not have the ability to convey tumah to a person, right? 28:36 אף נבלה לא מטמיא אדם. So too nevelah doesn't convey tumah to a person either. 28:43 That's what I would have thought. 28:44 Now of course that's not true, that's not true. 28:46 אלא יד דנבלה מיצטריך צריכא. Rather again therefore we circle back and we do need the Torah to tell us yad by nevelah because in reality nevelah can't be learned out from these other items because these other items are very dissimilar from nevelah. 29:00 The Gemara says אלא יד דנבלה מיצטריך צריכא ושומר דנבלה הוא דלא צריך. 29:05 But rather I don't need the Torah to teach the halakha of shomer by nevelah cause I can learn that out from the sources. 29:12 So the Gemara says למאי הלכתא כתב רחמנא. 29:15 So why does the Torah write the halakha of shomer by nevelah if I can in fact learn out from other sources? 29:19 אי לאיצטרופי אמר לא מצטרף. Right? Ultimately again if it's to tell me that the shomer has the ability to go ahead and combine, you told me it doesn't combine. 29:31 The Gemara says ulehotzi, if it's to teach me that it can transmit tumah, קל וחומר מיד אתיא. 29:37 I can learn that out from a kal v'chomer from yad. 29:40 אלא אם אינו עניין לשומר דנבלה תנהו עניין ליד דנבלה. So rather again if I don't need the limmud ultimately again for shomer, use the limmud for yad. 29:49 ואם אינו עניין ליד דנבלה, and if I don't need it for yad of nevelah cause I learn that out from the other two, תנהו עניין ליד דעלמא. 29:54 Then learn it to teach me a general halakha by yad. 29:59 What's the general halakha by Gemara says יד להוציא יד להכניס ושומר לצרף that a yad has the ability ultimately again to lehotzi ul'hachnis to go ahead and halacha lema'aseh transmit and also infuse. 30:17 Ultimately again v'shomer but a shomer again rabosai also has the added ability to what? 30:21 To combine. So we keep seeing this theme over and over and over, which is that yad, the power of a yad is the ability to infuse tumah into an item and to transmit it from that very same item. 30:33 However, a yad does not combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur, whereas a shomer will combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 30:42 Incredible. Amud Beis. v'eima אם אינו ענין לשומר דנבילה תנהו ענין לשומר דעלמא but why don't I say the following: If it's not necessary to teach me the halacha of shomer of neveila, use it to teach me ultimately again of the halacha of shomer in general. 31:03 שומר להכניס ושומר לצרף אבל יד להכניס לא. Maybe it teaches me the following. 31:11 Maybe it teaches me that shomer, in other words, this is the reverse limud. Shomer has the ability to infuse tumah, shomer has the ability to go ahead and combine, combine with the meat, אבל יד להכניס לא, but a yad doesn't have the ability to go 31:26 ahead and infuse tumah. Ela me'ikara, rather the Gemara says, rather the Gemara says a different conclusion. 31:31 כי כתיב יד הכנסה כתיבה. When the Torah first introduces us to the concept of yad, yad is introduced to us in the context ultimately again of hachnasa, of the infusion of tumah. 31:43 אלא שומר דנבילה למה לי? So why do I need ultimately a discussion about the shomer for neveila? Leguifei. 31:51 Ultimately to teach me a halacha about neveila itself. 31:54 So the Gemara says, okay, what's the halacha that's being taught? 31:57 Ul'mai ilei l'itztarufei? If you're telling me that the shomer of a neveila combines with the meat of neveila to form the requisite shiur, once again what's the shiur of neveila? 32:10 A kezayis. If you're telling me that that's the halacha, we just said before amrat lo mitztaref. 32:15 We just said before that the shomer of neveila does not combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. Ilei lehachnis ul'hotzi and ultimately again if I say to tell me that the shomer of a neveila has the ability to infuse tumah and 32:30 extract tumah, kal v'chomer miyad asya. מילתא דאתיא בקל וחומר טרח וכתב לה קרא. Rabosai, that's not a kasha, why? 32:42 Because sometimes even something that can be learned out by a kal v'chomer, the Torah will go out of its way to still quote a pasuk. Ei hachi, if that's the case, שומר דעלמא אימא לך להכניס ולהכניס. 32:56 If that's the case, then say that a shomer in general has the ability to infuse tumah, and therefore again, but this we can learn out from a kal v'chomer. 33:04 ומילתא דאתיא בקל וחומר טרח וכתב לה קרא. And I could just say there's something that the Torah went ahead and could have been learned out from a kal v'chomer, Torah goes out of its way to still write a pasuk. 33:16 So the Gemara says therefore היכא דאיכא למדרש דרשינן. 33:18 Ultimately again where we have the ability to darshan the pasuk, we still do that rather than resort to this idea. 33:25 Okay, incredible. שאני אומר שומר דנבילה כיון דמעשה יד קעביד איד שדינא ליה. Okay, so rabosai, so now this is where this gets very interesting. 33:37 So again, once again we don't have resolution on this whole thing, we know, we know the facts that we know, which are the very facts that we started the day with. 33:46 What we still don't have clarity on is ultimately again the full power of a yad versus a shomer. 33:55 Here's what we know is the range of abilities. 33:57 The range of abilities really comes down to three things: a yad and a shomer at most have three distinct qualities, which is machnis motzi mitztaref. Machnis: infuse tumah. Motzi: transmit tumah. Mitztaref: combine with the meat to form the requisite shiur. 34:16 This whole cholent of information, beautiful, delicious cholent of information, a cholent of neveila, of zra'im, of tanur, what a cholent. 34:26 So mamash again, this is the Gemara kind of swirling around and around trying to figure out halacha lema'aseh what are the qualities which each of these items have. 34:37 That's what we're trying to figure out without complete resolution yet. 34:41 Again, we're going to see the Rambam. 34:42 So I don't want you to lose any sleep over this, we're fine, we're just fine, we're going to get resolution on this and be'ezras Hashem complete clarity. 34:54 Again rabosai, sometimes, sometimes the journey of life is about navigating the ambiguity. 35:01 way it works, and sometimes, again, you just, you can't get to the finish line, you can't get to the clarity day one. 35:08 Sometimes again, navigating the ambiguity is part of the process because it makes the clarity so much sweeter when you had to navigate through the fog. 35:17 So this is the fog. 35:18 This is the fog. 35:19 Again, right, this Gemara's trying to tease out all these different things. 35:22 We're going to get there b'ezrat Hashem tomorrow, we'll see the Rambam. 35:24 But let's go a little bit veiter. 35:24 So the Gemara says, the Gemara says, good, where'd I just leave off? 35:32 Rav Chaviva. Rav Chaviva amar, shani omer, now listen to this, שומר דנבלה כיון דמעשה יד קעביד יד שדינא ליה. 35:40 Now again rabosai, now Rav Chaviva now introduces something very interesting. 35:44 He says, up until now we've been looking at these items as like two distinct categories. 35:49 There's a shomer and there's a yad, right? 35:51 Shomer is an item that protects, yad effectively is a handle. 35:55 What Rav Chaviva points out is he says, by the way I just want to point out, there are certain things that could absolutely do a dual purpose. 36:02 What's a good example of this? 36:03 We saw it before, the hide, right? 36:05 The hide is a perfect example of this. 36:07 The hide in its essence is a shomer. 36:09 Is a shomer, right, is a protector. 36:12 But yet, a hide could also be a yad, right? 36:15 The hide could be something in which you handle the meat. 36:18 So Rav Chaviva says, shani omer, shomer d'neveila, right, the shomer of a neveila, which again he's referring to the hide over here. 36:26 כיון דמעשה יד קעביד, since it can also function as a yad, yad shadina lei, ultimately again we go ahead and we can treat it as a yad. 36:37 So maskif lah רב יהודה בר שמואל. So רב יהודה בר שמואל said, here's the problem. 36:43 Hadasan rabosai, this is actually very interesting. 36:46 הפטמה של רימון מצטרפת והנץ שלו אינו מצטרף. The pitam, right, the pitam of a pomegranate actually has the ability to combine for the requisite shiur of tumas ochlin, but the neitz does not. 36:59 Now take a look at Rashi. Rashi is in, before the lines get wide, 2, 4, 6, 8, 10, 11 lines up from before the, sorry, 12 lines up from before the lines get wide. 37:11 So Rashi says over here, פטמה של רימון הוא שומר על פי. 37:15 Now watch this. Rashi understands over here that the pitma of the, of the pomegranate is ultimately again it's a shomer because what does it do essentially? 37:23 It plugs up the, of course remember again you can envision what the pomegranate has, like this zach on top. 37:31 That's the technical, crown, a crown. 37:33 Different than the pitma of an esrog, right? 37:35 The pitma of an esrog is really just like a little, like a little zachala that just like points up, right? 37:40 But it's fine, if you remove it, but the, right, the crown is a good, good word. 37:44 But the pomegranate really has a crown, right? 37:46 And that crown really it blocks the entry of the pri. 37:51 So that makes sense, that crown ultimately again is a, that's a shomer. 37:55 So Rashi says over here, פטמה של רימון הוא שומר על פיו והנץ שומר אחר אגבי הפטמה כגון שיש על אגוזים שומר אגבי שומר. 38:05 Now interestingly according to Rashi, the neitz is kind of like a little bit of like the, lack of a better term, like the hairy parts, right, around, around the pitma, around the crown. 38:14 That ultimately again is like a shomer on the shomer. 38:16 So now watch this. 38:18 So now the Gemara's saying over here, the pitma, the pitma of the rimon goes ahead and combines for the requisite shiur of the rimon. 38:25 But the neitz does not. 38:27 Now Rashi, one more Rashi, in mistareif דאין שומר אגבי שומר כדאמרינן לקמן פטמה מיהא מצטרפת ואמאי. 38:34 So again, the idea over here is because a fruit only has one shomer. 38:38 There's no such thing as a shomer on a shomer, right? 38:41 At least, at least for fruits, right? 38:42 No such thing as a shomer on a shomer. 38:44 And therefore halacha l'maaseh the pitma is considered to be the shomer and therefore it'll combine, but the neitz will not combine. 38:50 V'amai? But why is that? 38:52 The Gemara says, קרי כאן על כל זרע זרוע וליכא. 38:57 Ultimately again, don't we call about this על כל זרע זרוע and it's not present? 39:01 Now what is, now what does this mean? 39:02 So if you look at Rashi in mistareif, Rashi says דאין שומר אגבי שומר כדאמרינן לקמן פטמה מיהא מצטרפת ואמאי הכא למימר כדרך שבני אדם מוציאין לזריעה. 39:12 Now again rabosai, now this is very interesting. 39:14 The Gemara's asking why does the pitma combine with the rest of the rimon? 39:20 After all again rabosai, what combines for the requisite shiur? 39:23 What combines for the shiur of a fruit of a food item is how you would take it out to be planted. 39:29 Now generally, this is actually fascinating, Rashi points out how do you plant pomegranates? 39:35 So apparently the way you would plant pomegranates is you don't plant pomegranates. 39:39 What do you do? 39:40 You plant pomegranate tree branches. 39:43 You plant, you plant saplings or branches, that's what, you don't plant pomegranates. 39:48 As such again, the only part, in other words, the only something that is part of the fruit or food item that's planted combines with the shiur. 39:55 Furthermore Rashi says, if you are going to plant pomegranates in order to grow a pomegranate tree, you... 40:01 Only plant them once the pitam has fallen off. 40:03 As such, it's not part of the fruit when it's going to be planted and as such it should not combine. 40:10 V'shuv, furthermore we'll have to stop over here right in the middle of the good part. 40:13 All right, we'll have to stop over here. 40:15 All right, we'll pick up im yirtzeh Hashem tomorrow. 40:17 We're fine. Tomorrow's a shorter daf. 40:18 We'll be we'll be great im yirtzeh Hashem. Shkoiyach and im yirtzeh Hashem resolution tomorrow. 40:23 Tremendous. All right, everyone have a great day.
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